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1/2 - Top Two on Turn 1/2 - Top Two on Turn

11-28-2015 , 03:35 PM
I botched this hand, but my question relates to a pre-botch situation. I may reveal my botch later (so I can be properly abused by y'all).

Michigan charity room, playing deep and loose. It's 1am and I've been there since 7pm.

Villain ($450) is the tightest player at the table. He's been been in very few hands. He's older (as am I) and two to my left.

Hero (UTG) ($1,100): I was down $500 within the first thirty minutes of play due to some stupid play early on. I settled down and slowly built a stack that ranged between $600 and $900 for about 4 hours and has recently jumped to between $1,100 and $1,450 over the last two. Two tables consolidated about two hours ago and I was faced with some pretty deep, loose stacks. I've had success raising button and live straddles both getting value from made hands and taking it down on the flop with c-bets without hands. It was a classic loose-pre, fit-or-fold post environment with an occassional big semi-bluff thrown in to keep it interesting. While generally TAG, I was willing to selectively make a loose raise in straddled pots to take advantage of the weak post flop play.

OTTH:

Pre: $7 button straddle. SB calls, BB folds, I make is $25 with Qd 9d (as the button and SB have been fit-or-fold to my c-bets and I'm looking to isolate). Villain and button call. I'm OOP to both

Flop (~$80): Kc 9c 5s. C-bet $50 and only Villain calls.

Turn (~$180): (Kc 9c 5s) Qd. Villain has effective stack of ~$375. I'm a little concerned that he will not call two streets with just top pair. That said, he could be on a draw (or even a stronger made hand), as the board had become rather wet. Not sure how to proceed.

Villain?
1/2 - Top Two on Turn Quote
11-28-2015 , 05:35 PM
Just to nit-pick a bit, you seem to have Q both in your hand and as a turn card. Anyways:

Assuming this is 9-handed and it's really loose pre I don't think I'm opening Q9s UTG to isolate, or if I do it'd have to be bigger. Can't really see 4xStraddle getting isolation done against "loose, deep stacks" and I think we'll end OOP pretty often which will make our life difficult. Then again if you had reason to believe it would work, so be it. Me, I'd fold pre.

AP, turn is interesting because imho it depends so much on Villain's tendencies. Most nits I've encountered seem to prefer raising flopped flushes turning them face-up. I think Villains most likely holdings are a naked king, a king with a pretty big club or A. KQ is also in his range, but other than that I feel we're ahead.

I'd bet like $80 because I'm feeling certain a Villain like this wouldn't turn just a naked A to a bluff. If he ships, we can happily fold. However I feel we have to charge him from drawing, as he has outs no matter what. $80 is enough to give him incorrect odds but he might still think it's ok to call and see the river. Regardless of the river card (unless Q or 9), I want to check it down.

My play here is pretty exploitable sure, but I don't think this type of Villain is out there making plays on people and would rather just play his own hand.
1/2 - Top Two on Turn Quote
11-28-2015 , 05:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uprising65
Just to nit-pick a bit, you seem to have Q both in your hand and as a turn card.
Oops! Right you are. The turned queen was offsuit, let's say Q

Last edited by Notam; 11-28-2015 at 06:05 PM.
1/2 - Top Two on Turn Quote
11-28-2015 , 06:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uprising65
If he ships, we can happily fold. However I feel we have to charge him from drawing, as he has outs no matter what.
I like this.
1/2 - Top Two on Turn Quote
11-28-2015 , 06:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uprising65

My play here is pretty exploitable sure.
How? Why?
1/2 - Top Two on Turn Quote
11-28-2015 , 06:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Notam
How? Why?
I think against a potent opponent capable of shipping it as a semibluff or bluffing the river going to check-fold mode would be kinda exploitable.
1/2 - Top Two on Turn Quote
11-28-2015 , 06:21 PM
I would personally never open this hand with these game dynamics at play without position. The hand is simply too difficult to play from EP, for exactly the reason that you posted this thread. You've made a good hand but don't know if it's best or not.

If you had position on your opponents it makes it so much easier to play. For one, you can control the size of the pot with position; it's quite difficult to do without it as I think you discovered here.

Also, the Q on the turn completes a flush.
1/2 - Top Two on Turn Quote
11-28-2015 , 06:29 PM
this hand is trivial

he has AK........bet for value and try not to get counterfieted

bet 95 turn........but 105 river and value town the nit
1/2 - Top Two on Turn Quote
11-28-2015 , 06:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PFunkaliscious
this hand is trivial

he has AK........bet for value and try not to get counterfieted

bet 95 turn........but 105 river and value town the nit
I am with Pfunk on this one. I like to bet bet bet bet bet bet and fold when someone else shows aggression. I hate checking at 1/2.
1/2 - Top Two on Turn Quote
11-28-2015 , 06:38 PM
Okay. I'm messing up the queen. Sorry. It was an offsuit queen. No flush. Again. Sorry.
1/2 - Top Two on Turn Quote
11-28-2015 , 06:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koko the munkey
I would personally never open this hand with these game dynamics at play without position. The hand is simply too difficult to play from EP, for exactly the reason that you posted this thread. .
I think this is a very good point. I was having a lot of success with putting money in the pot against these straddles and taking it down with aggression on the flop. As I was in such an early position, I do agree that I took this idea a little bit too far.
1/2 - Top Two on Turn Quote
11-28-2015 , 06:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aust1227
I am with Pfunk on this one. I like to bet bet bet bet bet bet and fold when someone else shows aggression. I hate checking at 1/2.
Is there a point where you say I'm only going to get two streets of value and elect to check the turn to induce a call on the river?
1/2 - Top Two on Turn Quote
11-28-2015 , 07:00 PM
no. he has AK and he hit his hand. just value town
1/2 - Top Two on Turn Quote

      
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