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08-05-2013 , 11:05 PM
$1/2....utg limps in pre w/ $240ish. Loose passive limps in from late. I raise to $14 w/ KJo from late w/ $400. Shortie calls w/ $30 behind. Utg calls and loose guy folds.

(Pot: $47)
Flop: KJ9hh
I cbet $26....ss folds...utg check raises to $65. He has a made hand here (two pars+ if not better). Is this a cooler or can I fold???
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08-05-2013 , 11:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slimshady1999
$1/2....utg limps in pre w/ $240ish. Loose passive limps in from late. I raise to $14 w/ KJo from late w/ $400. Shortie calls w/ $30 behind. Utg calls and loose guy folds.

(Pot: $47)
Flop: KJ9hh
I cbet $26....ss folds...utg check raises to $65. He has a made hand here (two pars+ if not better). Is this a cooler or can I fold???
Well if youre positive this is "2 pair+ if not better" and K9o and J9o are not in villain's range then without stoving this (on phone) I suspect this is a trivial fold.
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08-05-2013 , 11:30 PM
(out of bathroom now) I'm assuming the K is a heart (which takes out top pair + FD), and that villain is folding K9o, QTo, and J9o to your preflop raise.

Quote:
Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

106,920 games 0.037 secs 2,889,729 games/sec

Board: Kc Jh 9h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 42.471% 29.37% 13.10% 31407 14003.50 { KJo }
Hand 1: 57.529% 44.43% 13.10% 47506 14003.50 { JJ, 99, KJs, K9s, QTs, J9s, KJo }
It looks like we should fold (if your assumption is true).

Edit: goddamnit I meant to make the K a heart so top pair+fd was not possible (but results are same since we didn't include that hand in villain's range)

Last edited by ILOVEPOKER929; 08-05-2013 at 11:43 PM.
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08-05-2013 , 11:38 PM
Does villain limp call with jj? Or KJo? You know these things better than we do, and you provided zero reads on villain
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08-05-2013 , 11:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wck117
Does villain limp call with jj? Or KJo? You know these things better than we do, and you provided zero reads on villain
Take out JJ and KJo and hero's equity gets only slightly better:

Quote:
Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

78,210 games 0.002 secs 39,105,000 games/sec

Board: Kc Jh 9h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 43.117% 38.75% 04.37% 30303 3419.00 { KJo }
Hand 1: 56.883% 52.51% 04.37% 41069 3419.00 { 99, KJs, K9s, QTs, J9s }
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08-05-2013 , 11:51 PM
If your sure its 2 pair or better then sure fold. But unless I misread OP, I can make a case to call, if not reraise.

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08-06-2013 , 12:28 AM
villain has only been at the table for maybe 20 minutes or so. havent really noticed much about him...he likes to limp in pre and he's calling J9o, K9o, Q10o at least some of the time here. he's only raised one hand pre (AQo). also he took a long time to call my raise (not sure if thats a tell). i expect JJ to raise pre....hes limp calling 99 pre all day here. and he is not raising a big combo draw here. K is a heart btw

Last edited by slimshady1999; 08-06-2013 at 12:36 AM.
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08-06-2013 , 12:52 AM
I certainly wouldn't be excited to play for stacks, but with the small raise, and position I think we can call with top two.
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08-06-2013 , 05:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Man of Means
I think we can call with top two.
What's your plan though? Do you want to see the Qh on the turn so it's an easier fold? Are we bypassing folding here, paying the raise, in the hopes of folding ott? Seems like a shove/fold to me.

I don't think it's right after just 20 minutes to only put V on made hands that beat us. If you do, fold, there isn't even room for discussion. But my first instinct when I read this was to shove for value/make him pay for a draw.
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08-06-2013 , 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldiesel
What's your plan though? Do you want to see the Qh on the turn so it's an easier fold? Are we bypassing folding here, paying the raise, in the hopes of folding ott? Seems like a shove/fold to me.

I don't think it's right after just 20 minutes to only put V on made hands that beat us. If you do, fold, there isn't even room for discussion. But my first instinct when I read this was to shove for value/make him pay for a draw.
20 min is a little weak. You need to get a better idea before you give up hands like this. Again from my post earlier, raising may be the way to go. I actually like the stove idea. Put him to a decision and then you will have some real good info

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08-06-2013 , 07:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slimshady1999
villain has only been at the table for maybe 20 minutes or so. havent really noticed much about him...he likes to limp in pre and he's calling J9o, K9o, Q10o at least some of the time here. he's only raised one hand pre (AQo). also he took a long time to call my raise (not sure if thats a tell). i expect JJ to raise pre....hes limp calling 99 pre all day here. and he is not raising a big combo draw here. K is a heart btw
Below, I included half of the K9o hands, half of the J9o hands, and half of the QTo hands. JJs are excluded, and all KJo/KJs, K9s, J9s, and QTs, 99s hands are included. Your equity doesn't change much. Youre still in a horrible spot.

Quote:
Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

163,350 games 0.004 secs 40,837,500 games/sec

Board: 9h Kh Jc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 44.176% 35.35% 08.83% 57740 14422.00 { KJo }
Hand 1: 55.824% 46.99% 08.83% 76766 14422.00 { 99, KJs, K9s, QTs, J9s, KJo, Kc9d, Kc9h, Kc9s, Kd9h, Kd9s, Kh9s, QcTd, QcTh, QcTs, QdTh, QdTs, QhTs, Jc9d, Jc9h, Jc9s, Jd9h, Jd9s, Jh9s }
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08-06-2013 , 09:50 PM
45% equity isn't a terrible spot especially with dead money but I guess shoving or folding is fine either way then. Anyways I probably took the worst line of all.... I flatted flop....then tank folded on a blank turn.
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08-06-2013 , 11:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slimshady1999
45% equity isn't a terrible spot especially with dead money but I guess shoving or folding is fine either way then. Anyways I probably took the worst line of all.... I flatted flop....then tank folded on a blank turn.
Wow bad
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08-07-2013 , 09:00 AM
What was your reasoning? Not to roast just wondering. Also what was the turn action, card and bet size
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08-07-2013 , 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban girl scout
What was your reasoning? Not to roast just wondering. Also what was the turn action, card and bet size
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Well I tanked for a long time on flop after I got raised...and really thought about folding but of course I got attached to my hand and called. On turn (it was a complete blank...an offsuit rag)....he fired $80 and by then I realized I had to commit myself and I felt like I was beat so I finally folded after a few min. I shoulda folded flop for sure.....it's just so hard to fold top two there (AA, AK, and even J9 are easy snap folds on flop for me).
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08-07-2013 , 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slimshady1999
Well I tanked for a long time on flop after I got raised...and really thought about folding but of course I got attached to my hand and called. On turn (it was a complete blank...an offsuit rag)....he fired $80 and by then I realized I had to commit myself and I felt like I was beat so I finally folded after a few min. I shoulda folded flop for sure.....it's just so hard to fold top two there (AA, AK, and even J9 are easy snap folds on flop for me).
OK so correct me if I'm wrong on this set up. You have roughly 20 min of play with V, you have top 2 and the flop brought all hearts. He reraise your bet ... this screams shove/fold. What did you want to hit Ott?

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08-08-2013 , 07:24 AM
Grunch.

What are your reads here? This is just villain specific. Is he capable of c/r with a draw?

When a player c/r like this, I think he usually either has a really big hand or a really big draw. So we need to use our reads to try to determine the best course of action.

Have you seen him c/r with his draws before?
Does he over-bet to protect his made hands on wet boards?
What made hands fit into his range that we are ahead of? K9s, J9s, maybe the offsuit version of those cards depending on how loose he is from UTG.
What made hands fit into this range that we are behind? QT, 99 (would he open 99 UTG pf?)

We are 120BB effective here. If he doesn't c/r with his draws ever, I am going to just fold this. I might fold it anyway because we are never really that far ahead of anything and we are crushed by other parts of his range.

In addition, we now lose the initiative and have to behold to him. If he is a decent player and he doesn't have hearts, he could rep those if they come in.

Overall, I would lean toward a fold unless I had a very specific read in this situation.
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