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<img /2 - Thoughts on my line. <img /2 - Thoughts on my line.

12-02-2014 , 02:26 PM
Very much dislike the way I played this hand. Thoughts on optimal line based on given information.

$1/2 9-Handed Live

Hero - $300 - 26, white - Just sat down maybe 5 hands ago, after waiting like 5 hands to post my bb - have not played any hands other than checking my bb and folding vs bet.

V - $550 - mid 20's white kid - Has been involved in a few hands, calling pre and giving up multi way. Has not showed down any hands. Appears to be competent and not a nit.

Folds to V in CO who opens to $12.
Folds to Hero who flats $12 on the Button with KJ

Heads-up to Flop ($27): K82

V bets $20, Hero flats $20

Turn ($67): 8

V bets $40, Hero flats $40

River ($147): 5

V Checks, Hero bets $75...
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12-02-2014 , 02:39 PM
Meh fold pre. KJo is pretty and position is nice, but it's a fold.

As played, yes - call flop, call turn are your only options on those streets.

I mean, river is one reason pre is bad. It's almost tough to tell if you're bluffing vs. AA, AK, KQ or value betting vs. KT. Either way, I think the river is a check behind. I doubt he fires turn with worse than Kx (so he doesn't have 99-QQ). He may not open pre-flop with much worse than K9s or w/e, and not sure he calls river with all Kx, anyway.

I'd check behind now but not play the hand in the first place.
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12-02-2014 , 02:39 PM
Seems fine to me, river is really thin. I probably check back - if he's barrelling on a dry board and has nothing, he's not calling a river bet. OTOH, he could be opening a bunch of K's for value. I dunno, maybe I've talked myself into a thin river bet myself haha.

Without strong reads, I just check back here.
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12-02-2014 , 02:39 PM
As played, sounds good. Im guessing Villian had KQ or AK.

I think I would have either 3bet with KJ on the button or folded pre. By just calling with KJ you have no idea what flops are good for your hand vs Villian. if you flop a J, AJ QQ, KQ, AA, QQ KK all beat you. And if you flop a K, AK, KQ, AA, KK all beat you.

Again, I'd probably 3bet if I think I can out play Villian, or fold if I think I couldn't
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12-02-2014 , 02:40 PM
What hands are (1) in V's range, (2) weaker than yours, and (3) calling your river bet?

He raised pre, and it's the first raise we've seen. So we don't know if he raises light or not. K10 might be in his range. K9s might be, but that seems unlikely.

KQ and AK are definitely in his range.

AA, QQ, JJ, 1010, and 99 are all in his range as well. Aces would probably bet the river. The others might have checked the turn, but might have fired the second barrel. But are those underpairs calling a healthy river bet? Also seems unlikely, since he has no hh with you and you've played tight so far.

V's line is consistent with KQ, KJ, and possibly AK. That was the driest conceivable flop, and you've called two bets from him. Now he wants to check-call the river, in case you have 22, AK, or 78/89/810.

You gain value when he calls with K10 or some super-weird Kxs combo. You also gain value when he makes a crying call with an underpair.
You lose value when he calls with KQ and AK.

So it depends on how you weight his range. But in a vacuum, I would just check behind on the river (or bet $40, making a crying call more likely from his under pairs). It may seem like a passive play, but at this point his line seems like either "I give up, I'm folding" or "let me check-call."

You have plenty of showdown value, but you aren't folding any better hands, and you aren't getting called by many weaker hands.
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12-02-2014 , 02:42 PM
Don't flat a raise from a tight villain with KJo. You will be dominated too often. Call flop, fold turn some of the time to continued aggression. Check behind on river, without a good read it isn't clear you can get value from worse or get better to fold.

This is exactly the sort of situation that makes folding preflop best. On the flop your hand is too good to just give up but absent some very good run out, you can never be confident your best or can get any value from worse either. After the raise to $12 effective stacks are too short to play with the hopes of hitting two pair+ and your single pairs are break even at best unless villain is really transparent and awful.
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12-02-2014 , 03:15 PM
Pre - I agree, without reads, this is just a fold pre. fwiw, my readless classification of the V was that he was anything but tight and likely adjusting his range accordingly for it being folded to him in the CO - this being based solely on age, attire,stack, etc. I think 3b has to be the worst of the 3 options here, our hand is terrible in a 3b pot with or w/o position.

Post - pretty sure it is unanimous that flatting the flop is optimal.

Turn - This is a spot that I really disliked flatting, but also think folding is so exploitable. In retrospect, I think that this is a fold ... we are unknown to V and we probably should not expect him to barrel light/air too often without him knowing that we are capable of folding a hand like 77 here. Turn is also a card improves our range way more than his.

River - In game, when V checked, I felt gross checking back. With that said, as played up to the river... I think this is a super easy check back... When I bet I was betting for value vs hands like QQ-TT, but realistically these should not be in his range very often as he likely checks turn. Additionally, I think I was overly optimistic to expect to be called the times he does have worse hands - as noted my best guess was that he was at least competent.

How it played out ...

Spoiler:
V sigh called and showed AA ... based on the manner in which he called, I am quite certain I never had a shot of being called by worse.
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12-02-2014 , 03:51 PM
at these stakes vs unknown i can muck ott even vs a young punk

and im not mad at our hand vs villain
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12-02-2014 , 04:01 PM
Agree with mostly what everyone has said about the hand, I'd like to add on that If you're new to the table and this young [competent looking] villain is at our table I'd like to get more information (by calling) on his opening and double barreling range. And it's your first hand played, so checking river seems optimal
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12-02-2014 , 04:13 PM
Preflop: Folding, calling, or 3betting are all viable options. If you call, be prepared to bluff raise a lot of flop c-bets or else it's a losing move.

Flop: Good. Raising will get action from better hands and cause worse hands to fold. Only exception is when they decide to play back at you as a bluff, in which case you are pretty much obligated to fold. By calling you allow your opponent to keep firing when behind.

Turn: Good. Putting in a small raise with the intention of checking behind on the river is also a viable option.

River: I like betting here, but I would go slightly smaller to $60 That said, if betting half pot is a mistake it's a very small one. EDIT: The reason I prefer $60ish is that I think QQ-TT and worse kings reluctantly toss their chips in versus a tiny bet, but "real" bets of half-pot or more greatly increase the chances that those hands fold.

Overall I think you played this hand well.

Just my opinion...
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