Reads: Black, very aggressive but not a total spewy maniac. I'd say decent LAG. Limps a LOT pre flop. Mixes in some raises. Has made double barrel, pot sized flop and turn bets in a limped pot once on an all club flop. River was a non club, check check and villain says "I missed" and was beat by one modest pair. He will fold though...he's not totally spewy despite having made like one big hero call once in 5 hours.

UTG limps, V1 limps in MP, CO limps, I limp from the button with A6, SB completes and villain checks.

Flop comes A77. Checks to villain who bets $11 into $12. I flat (anyone fold here?). I think a fold is defensible since there is a chance the blinds have 7-X (it's the perfect spot for a check/raise). Given my read on villain though, I thought flush draws were in his range so I called.

Turn is 3. Villain bets $7 into $35. Now I'm confident he has a decent-weak A-X or a flush draw. I flat.

River is Kclub. Villain checks. Pot is ~$50. Try to take him off a chop and if so how much?

I thought you already figured out the formula for these "I'll make you fold chop pots" hands...

check river. you don't credibly rep a hand better than ak, can't stand a cr, he is unlikely to call with worse, and you have very good showdown value obv.

Limping on the button with Axs is pretty weak. Raise PF and play poker.

preflop is fine, suited low ace doesn't want to bloat the pot, plenty of other weak hands we can raise on the button to build a pot to steal later.

I always play 150bb+ deep so I'm raising Axs PF on the button every time unless the only players in the hand are super short stacked. Easy to evaluate post flop and cbet most boards when checked to.

If the flop didn't contain a flush draw, I can represent 7-X credibly. I can still rep it I think, but not quite as credibly...

The important part here is, while his range on the flop contained a LOT of 7-X, his weak turn bet followed by river check allow us to heavily discount, if not eliminate, 7-X from his range.

His range is probably mostly A-X (where X is NOT a king, since AK raises pre) or busted flush draws. Does checking or betting perform best against this range?

Against the busted flush draws, checking is equal to betting (i.e. EV check = EV bet). Against the ace-X though, does he ever fold these?

You can't rep a 7 by flatting the turn...

Seriously?

1/2 Taking Someone Off Chop - BenT07891

What changed?

Well, technically the villains are different along with the absolute hand strengths. Your less likely to get a fold in the linked hand than here. Real moral of the stories is to stop limping in with dominated hands where at best you're going to be is chopping.

Although I'm usually raising a suited ace from the BTN, I don't think limping is horrible...as long as one doesn't get married to an ace with a crappy kicker.

No

So how do you guys go about analyzing whether to check or bet this river? Note that the rake has already removed the full amount (10% up to $5), so it's not like betting will result in a higher rake.

If his range is 80% ace-X (where X is not a king) and 20% busted flush draws or just bluffs that have given up...then...

EVcheck = .2*$48 + .8*$24 = $28.8

If he calls a bet 100% of the time with Ace-X and never bluff/checkraises, then EVbet = EVcheck.

If he folds an ace-X a non-zero percent of the time, then betting>checking. But at the same time, if he has a 7-X some percent of the time, checking might be better than betting...

I'm a touch confused here. You seem to have a propensity for being weak passive preflop with marginal hands but then you tend to become aggro / spewy post flop with those same marginal hands.

And specifically it seems you have a penchant for wanting to target scary boards and in this case you are targeting a scary board against a "LAG". And if he is a true LAG I expect him to c/r over the top of your river bet X% of the time.

I think you may have a leak in your game, because playing marginal hands weak passive preflop and then trying to get aggressive with those same hands post flop AFTER you've shown weakness post flop is going to result in you getting hero called down a lot...

You rep nothing and villain is never folding Ax to your river bet. Like never. And if he has a busted flush draw I actually see him c/r you more often then he just surrenders (you did describe him as LAG).

Overall, I'm very meh about this spot. Just check it back.

if you want to take these more aggressive lines, then you need to apply some of that aggression preflop or earlier in the hand so you can retake the initiative. You can't all of a sudden get to the river and then decide to put on your big boy pants and make a play. And since you seem to insist on doing this on super scary chop boards... the result is you get hero called by hands that chop and prison raped by hands that dominate yours...

There are more 7-X hands in my limping range than raising range here...

but you play them like this never.

Actually, IDK about that. The entire time, even for his flop bet, I put the huge majority of his range at A-X. Since there are some A-X where X is less than 5, that's why I called flop. Against Ace X, there's no need to raise with trip 7s since he's drawing nearly dead.

Why would you ever flat his lolsmall turn bet if you had a 7? You have some majorly flawed thinking in many of these threads. Think about this hand from Vs point of view.

Results: Villain thinks for like a minute, mumbling, "man...this is just paying him off..." Then calls with A10o and says, "show me that 7". I bet $50 on the river by the way.

No, no there isn't in most players' minds.

For players who think about range? Sure.
The way you played it? Nah.

Can you comment on why you prefer to be weak loose passive preflop, flop, and turn and then on the river decide to try to rep a hand???

Serious question, what is your thought process in taking these sort of lines?

your getting great advice, especially from dgi.

from your previous hhs, it looks like you try and avoid making decisions pre flop in an attempt to control and regulate your post flop decisions. but, for the most part, your just complicating them.

as dgi said, playing passively pre, and amping up the aggression on later streets, is going to be a counter productive. your pretty much allowing weaker hands to get involved and then amping up the aggression when they have a wider range of hands that can give you a world of trouble. doesn't make much sense if you step back and take a look at it.

Preflop is a standard limp behind a few limpers IMO. If it was offsuit I'd fold. I'm playing for a flush or two pair+. I don't plan to get married to top pair and in many cases I'll fold to just one bet on an ace high flop.

Raising is too loose...A6 doesn't rate to be the best hand pre flop.

If villain didn't have the image he had, and didn't show down a few bluffs/semibluffs, I would have folded flop.

Once I flatted flop, I was ready to release to a large turn bet since I beat nothing but flush draws. Once he bet $7, we can skew his range toward flush draws or Ace-X.

By the river we have a huge amount of information. We can now very accurately narrow his range down to something like 85% Ace-X and 15% busted draws. Betting should perform best overall against this range than checking if there's a non-zero percent chance he folds ace-X.

By betting river, I'm free-rolling him in a way. I can only chop or win. Meanwhile villain is calling to chop or lose.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeroll

I also just overlimp preflop.

I'd fold the flop. Villain bet into a 6way pot, including 2 still to act behind him, plus we still have a few to react after us. We're probably drawing to a chop at best, could be drawing almost dead, and have no draw ourselves. This is not the flop I was looking for when I overlimped it for cheap.

As played, what do you make of the lol turn bet size? If we read this for weak, I'd put in a big raise offering poor 2:1 odds (i.e. ~$60). We charge flush draws and *might* get other Aces to fold now. It's the last bet I'm planning on putting in the pot.

As played on the river, will this guy ever get out-of-line and check/raise a busted draw here? Otherwise, I probably just pot it.

ETA: Even though I don't play flop/turn the same as OP, I don't think this hand was butchered as badly as others make it out to be.

GcluelessNLnoobG