1/2 9 handed - Hero has 400, V1 covers, V2 has 200

Hero dealt AA on BTN.

V1 opens 10 UTG, V2 3 bets 40 from HJ, Hero calls from BTN, V1 calls.

Flop (123) - 642

V1 checks, V2 checks, Hero bets 75, V1 raises 200, V2 folds, Hero calls.

Turn (523)- 5

V1 puts hero all-in for 160, hero calls.

Reads on V1 - MAWG, Haven't seen him before tonight, this is a room I don't play in that often, but from his chat with other regs and dealers, he's clearly a reg. He's been chatting about the state of online poker, HUD's, bots, datamining etc, so has some online knowledge. He's up in the game, playing pretty LAG, seen him open K3s UTG, also seen him open and barrel 2 streets vs 2 opponents after flopping a gutshot and 1 over, getting there on the river. Also 4 bet shove TT pre vs a complete fish.

Reads on V2 - Young chinese guy, played a bunch with him before but not so much recently, he's a bit on the spewy side, but correctly tightens up vs hero as he's seen from experience that when the big bets go in I generally have it.

Hero image - Should be very tight/nitty, been at the table around 3hrs and just haven't had many playable hands. Made 1 3 bet pre, no 4 bets & no showdowns. Up 100, just from raising and c-betting a few times.

Preflop - Do we 4bet or flat? I'm normally a big advocate of fastplaying at Llsnl, but my image is tight at this table and I think both of these Villains are observant enough to read a cold 4b for what it is, maybe cold calling looks just as strong? I thought there was a chance UTG might squeeze a marginal value hand he would play more cautiously vs a 4 bet. I'm also IP postflop.

Flop - I'm setting up a turn shove, c/r sizing seems weird as it's less than a PSB to put me all in, do we read anything into him making a committing bet which is less than all-in? I call, the money is going in on the turn anyway but I'd prefer him to put it in so I get to see his hand, and don't have to show mine if I lose.

Very well played up until you called the flop check-raise. With $160 more behind you gotta GII as V folds 0% of his hands at this point. I don’t care about seeing his hand. If he calls and ends up mucking he had AXhh or TT-KK. Not much to gain here.

I’m never considering a fold vs an UTG raise. If V flopped a set on a 642 board then I’ll happily reload.

As played I think you have to call. Villain can easily show up here with 10s-KKs, although maybe not? since he would most likely cbet this board. Would be nice to know other hands youve seen this guy 3b.

As for PF i think its an auto 4b. You said villain is slighlty on the spewy side so give him a chance to go crazy. Unlikely he will fold JJ,QQ,KK, AKs, which is a large part of his 3b range.

Do you think calling the flop vs GII actually makes much difference? Assuming my plan is for the rest of the money to go in on the turn? I don't see him ever folding a FD on the turn at this price. Maybe you're right and he finds a fold with something like TT no if a big comes on turn.

My thinking was that it's essentially all-in on the flop anyway, and if I don't have to show I slowplayed AA I'd prefer not to, and I'd prefer to see his hand than not see it.

Villain is the pf open/overcaller not 3bettor, so he is likely checking range on flop.

Preflop 3 bettor is on the spewy side but I don't think he will be vs my cold 4 bet. Plus he started the hand with 200, UTG has my 400 covered. If stack sizes were reversed I'd be more inclined to 4bet and just hope 3better has a hand he can't get away from.

Click it back the first time. Make it $80. If V1 comes along V2 will likely shove so you can shove. Prob get heads up V2 all in pre or even better all in pre against both.

The chance of him check/folding the turn, as small as it is, should still be greater than the chance of him folding the flop. You’re far ahead of his range here and you can get all the monies in while being so. Pile it in while there’s basically 0 FE. He can’t bluff the turn with napkins because he already knows you’re never folding at that point anyway so there’s no risk that you’re missing a chance for him to bluff the next street.

i mean piling in the flop makes sense, cuz like why not?


what is he folding, he has pot commited himself.

like maybe he would fold jacks or 10s at this point, but like i doubt its a huge difference in our ev.

though i don't think there is a huge problem with letting him see the turn.

like maybe he has 10s and an ace hits the turn and he folds to our shove figuring he loses to a ace high flush draw now.


obviously preflop the standard play is to four bet, but there really is nothing wrong in mixing in a flat. i mean if you think someone is maniacal post flop that would be a good reason to mix in a flat.

as played obvious can't fold, but he probably is going to have you beat a lot here, sets and even 6-5 suited.

4b in 1/2 is almost always KK+. Cold 4b even moreso. I would never 4b pre here with AA vs an UTG open. Neither player ever call without KK. So, I don’t think a 4b here pre is standard at all.

I think the biggest decision point here is pre-flop. I 4-bet here to around $100 for a few reasons.

1. You're multi-way, and while you'll have the best absolute position, you're in bad relative position because you're going to be squeezed between the PFR and the initial caller. A lot of times V2 c-bets flop and you have to make a decision facing a possible x-r from V1.
2. Both Vs are completely uncapped pre. Makes it more likely your 4-bet gets action.
3. When we flat SPRs are slightly awkward. There will be $120 in the pot with $360 behind. The 3:1 SPR would be good to stack off with head's up on any board but a bit harder 3-way. If we make it $100, we end up with a 1.5:1 SPR head's up or a 1:1 SPR 3-way, and can stack off on all boards.

So while I don't hate the flat I'd probably save it for head's up situations and play a bit more straightforward in a multi-way pot.

I agree with the first two sentences, but not the conclusion. Sure 4-bets are usually KK+ (or AK/KK+) but that doesn't mean people don't call them all of the time with significantly worse than KK. Sure, maybe they SHOULDN'T call without KK (and I just posted a hand where I folded QQ facing a cold 4-bet), but they do. It's why (I assume) 4-bet bluffing isn't a big part of most people's 1/2 game.

While higher variance, I would much rather see a flop 3-ways in position with AA than the high likelihood that both players would fold to a 4b. I feel pretty confident it’s significantly higher EV. If you disageee that’s cool.

I’m a very aggressive preflop player and have shown down my fair share of light 3bs and when I used to cold 4b KK+ in these spots I basically never get any playback here ever. I’d also flat QQ and AKs here and sometimes JJ and AQs.

Pre would cold 4b given that V1 is 200 bigs deep effective, dont want him in the pot getting good implied odds vs us and HJ isnt bluffing often when 4x vs UTG raise, might as well just gii. Plus ppl put at least some % of AK in your perceived range whether or not you cold 4b it at all so they will call or even reraise with JJ-KK/AK at least a good amt

My thinking was I do want him in the pot even though I'm giving him good implied odds. SPR is only going to be 3. I also thought there was a decent chance he would squeeze a hand like AK or QQ-TT vs my flat, whereas he probably folds most of those hands vs a cold 4bet.

I would lean towards 4bet if I had an active image, or if either Villain was a fish just playing their hand strength.

I thought with a tight image & 2 villains who would be aware of that the higher EV was in flatting pre. Maybe I'm wrong and I just give V1 too good implied odds with a lot of his range, in a situation where relative position is probably as valuable as absolute position.

just ship flop
turn just call, this is a 3b pot...yea you will lose to 35, sets, 78s, 3x suited but that's why you ship flop
or villain can have some random draws, random middle pair...
you called flop coz you wanted him in the game, now somewhat scary card comes, you can't chicken out
just call it a cooler or what not when he shows you better, any cards he show afterwards are valuable information, like if he call 3b with A3 suited, if means his 3b calling range is super wide, you can 3b with AJ/AQ etc. for value later on, if he starts folding more often to 3b, then start 3b bluffing the hell out of him
if he shows you a set, next time he x/r you, proceed with caution
also if he shows you a fd type hand, it means he's aggressive with draws, when you get x/r you can outmanuever him


and no we are never cold 4betting AA....cold 4betting screams aa/kk, unless you are viewed as spazy crazy 3b/4b guy
you can cold 4b bluff vs guys who 3b light, they fold to you in a heartbeat
people are not stupid, they know cold 4b = AA/KK
in order for a cold 4b to work for value...v2 who 3b must 3b frequently, and you have a super aggro image

*edit* if we are leading out on the flop, lead out smaller 30-50, this gives v2 more room to manuever, if you lead out 75, over half his stack is in the pot if he calls, which forces him to only call/ship if he has a hand, or just folds when he has hands like aq/ak
leading out 75 also means strength to some people....hence i prefer 40-50
a small size bet can still easily put opponents stack in the middle on the turn/river, no need to get all hyped up on the flop

AA is like the nuts in 3b pots, treat them with care and they'll serve you well

4b pre. You have an UTG open and a sizeable 3b. Someone likes their hand. If they both fold you get a free steak dinner. Win win.