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1/2 SL OOP 3bet pot Overs+NFD 1/2 SL OOP 3bet pot Overs+NFD

12-03-2013 , 06:41 PM
Hello,

The game is 1/2/100 SL at the Ameristar in Blackhawk, CO. It is about 4am at this point and I have been at the table for about 5 hours.

V: White female in her forties. She has been at the table for longer than I have and has not been very active. She had about 500 in front of her a few hours ago and has been steadily losing since then. Her play is pretty erratic and unpredictable. (She will fold for an hour as then raise 3/5 hands PF with marginal hands). I have not seen her get out of line post flop at all. She seems to be pretty card dead and has not taken many hands to the river. Definitely fit or fold post flop.

Notable Hand:
About an hour into my session I picked up AA in the blinds. There were three limps and V raised to 16 in MP. I 3! to 45, the limpers folded and she called. I started this hand with only $130. Flop came Q92r. I shoved my remaining $85 into the pot of ~$92. She tank called with top set after counting out her chips a couple times...... Lol.

H: I have been at the table for about 5 hours and am probably viewed as one of the best two players at the table by anyone paying attention. I have been opening tight PF and been quite aggressive post flop. I have grown my stack from $150 to about $500 very gradually. The previous hand against V is one of only two "big pots" I have played all night.

Onto the hand:

V: UTG+1 ($250 behind)
H: SB (Covers)

I need to note that the hand prior to this one V won a sizable pot. She looked at her cards this time after UTG folded and immediately raised to $20 without any hesitation. This was the biggest open from her or anybody all night. I did not think she had a premium hand when she did this.

The action folded around to me and I 3! to $55 With AsQs. This was only my second 3! of the session. (The first was the hand mentioned against her when I 3! with AA and she flatted with QQ.

She tanked for maybe a minute and called. At this point the pot is about $105 and she has $195 behind.

Flop ($105) Jh 6s 4s

Hero?

Thanks in advance for the input!
1/2 SL OOP 3bet pot Overs+NFD Quote
12-03-2013 , 06:55 PM
Do you think V is putting you on a hand range at all? Or is V jus playing their hand? If you think V has the potential to put you on a range then I like to C/R flop otherwise just follow up with a continuation bet on the flop.
1/2 SL OOP 3bet pot Overs+NFD Quote
12-03-2013 , 07:13 PM
I'd put her on TT,JJ,QQ, AK.

I think I would bet/fold the flop. ~75. It looks strong.
Play ABC, you said she doesn't get out of line. Easy fold if she raises.

If I check, I would only check/call, and that's still uncomfortable.
I think If I check, she'll probably bet(since its so draw heavy), in which case I'm behind. And when I call, I'm playing the draw face-up.
If it goes check check, you're probably ahead. But this is unlikely, given the 3bet pot.
I don't really like check/fold since it's really exploitable.
I don't like check/shove since you don't fold out many hands that are in her range, except TT with shoving, and she'll probably call.

Personally, I'd c-bet 100% of the time.
That set Q story was weird though. She's scared of bad beats or something.

Last edited by whatisthis3; 12-03-2013 at 07:22 PM.
1/2 SL OOP 3bet pot Overs+NFD Quote
12-03-2013 , 07:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wonjunnn
I'd put her on TT,JJ,QQ, AK.

I think I would bet/fold the flop. ~75. It looks strong.
Play ABC, you said she doesn't get out of line. Easy fold if she raises.

If you check, then she either check behinds, or bets into you. Which in the latter, you'd be chasing the flush if you call.

I don't really like check/fold since you're probably beat if they bet into you, and it's really exploitable.
I don't like check/shove since you don't fold out many hands that are in her range, except TT with shoving.

Personally, I'd c-bet 100% of the time.
Dear god, bet/fold is the worst possible option.

bet/call, check/call, and check/fold are all better.

Under no circumstance should you ever be folding this flop. SPR is 2. We have nut flush draw with 2 overs and a backdoor straight draw on an unpaired board. This is never, ever, ever a fold.
1/2 SL OOP 3bet pot Overs+NFD Quote
12-03-2013 , 07:33 PM
Guy above me nails it. Honestly think 1st poster missed the nfd

At OP: if you have to ask for feedback in a spot like this then its very unlikely you are "one of the best 2 players at the table"

And **** off with the 3! Bull****
1/2 SL OOP 3bet pot Overs+NFD Quote
12-03-2013 , 07:40 PM
lol at b/f the flop. Bet $100 on flop and the last of it on the turn.
1/2 SL OOP 3bet pot Overs+NFD Quote
12-03-2013 , 09:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbra Streisand
Honestly think 1st poster missed the nfd
No I saw it. I stated if you think she's putting you on a monster a check/raise on the flop would be the best option if you think she will fire the flop. Otherwise just fire on the flop and shove on the turn.
1/2 SL OOP 3bet pot Overs+NFD Quote
12-03-2013 , 09:19 PM
3bet pre is very bad. What worse hands are calling?

Bet and never fold now...
1/2 SL OOP 3bet pot Overs+NFD Quote
12-03-2013 , 09:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wonjunnn
I'd put her on TT,JJ,QQ, AK.

I think I would bet/fold the flop. ~75. It looks strong.
Play ABC, you said she doesn't get out of line. Easy fold if she raises.

If I check, I would only check/call, and that's still uncomfortable.
I think If I check, she'll probably bet(since its so draw heavy), in which case I'm behind. And when I call, I'm playing the draw face-up.
If it goes check check, you're probably ahead. But this is unlikely, given the 3bet pot.
I don't really like check/fold since it's really exploitable.
I don't like check/shove since you don't fold out many hands that are in her range, except TT with shoving, and she'll probably call.

Personally, I'd c-bet 100% of the time.
That set Q story was weird though. She's scared of bad beats or something.
Lol not any of this. Just do the opposite
1/2 SL OOP 3bet pot Overs+NFD Quote
12-03-2013 , 10:14 PM
Wow..

So we have a a bad weak player make a snap huge open ...

Just flat pre, then ck/call this flop.. B/c You have no fe in this spot raising is pointless.
1/2 SL OOP 3bet pot Overs+NFD Quote
12-03-2013 , 10:19 PM
I don't like the 3-bet with AQ here. The villain made a strong bet and you essentially mid-raised it, not quite a mid-raise but I think it's on the smaller side. You're bloating the pot with an unmade easily dominated hand. You're virtually never getting better to fold and only occasionally getting some funky connectors that took a stab to call.

As played you hit the flop as hard as you realistically could have wanted. Like The Rumor said "Under no circumstance should you ever be folding this flop. SPR is 2. We have nut flush draw with 2 overs and a backdoor straight draw on an unpaired board. This is never, ever, ever a fold".

Excluding a set of jacks and aces you're basically flipping against her entire range here. I think you can even safely remove aces and kings from her range because they 4-bet you pre-flop. You have great equality on the flop but you need to take advantage of it because it drops significantly if you brick on the turn.

There are a number of ways you can go about it on the flop, but please for the love of God never bet/fold. Personally I like a small lead, say $20-30, to induce a raise by villain which you promptly can jam over. If she just calls the tiny lead you're still getting about the right odds to draw to your flush. Whatever you decide your goal here should be to maximize your flop equality and be aggressive, especially if villain is scared money or MUBSy. If you think you have no FE you can even play a bit passively hoping she makes a mistake with her betting to price you in.
1/2 SL OOP 3bet pot Overs+NFD Quote
12-03-2013 , 11:11 PM
It seems like the consensus here is to flat pre and c-bet this flop.

After the flop I had no intention of folding with the SPR being under 2 and my equity being so great against any range I could assign for her.

If I bet $75 OTF and get called the pot will be $255 and she will have $120 behind. Am I shoving (actually betting the $100 max bet) any turn in this spot? If we assume I have zero, or close to zero FE OTT, is shoving blank turns the right move?

Thanks for all the input!
1/2 SL OOP 3bet pot Overs+NFD Quote
12-03-2013 , 11:16 PM
Quote:
V: White female in her forties.
Quote:
I need to note that the hand prior to this one V won a sizable pot. She looked at her cards this time after UTG folded and immediately raised to $20 without any hesitation. This was the biggest open from her or anybody all night. I did not think she had a premium hand when she did this.
Does not compute. I probably would have just folded pre from SB here. Probably on the nitty side but can't be bad since we are OOP unless you have seen her raise this much with hands worse than JJ/AQ before. Most of the time a big raise PF is a big hand.
1/2 SL OOP 3bet pot Overs+NFD Quote
12-03-2013 , 11:36 PM
I'm not happy with my preflop play here at all. She was almost always acting slowly and under betting when she "thought" she was ahead; on any street. (Something I failed to mention in the OP). My first instinct was to discount or minimize big premiums from her range.
In hind site I'm not happy with my reasoning here necessarily and don't like my PF 3! at all.

This particular player was someone who I was looking to play pots against. Anybody else think that folding pre is better than flatting?

Being OOP obviously stinks but folding here PF just seems too nitty.
1/2 SL OOP 3bet pot Overs+NFD Quote
12-03-2013 , 11:39 PM
Lol yes please fold here preflop
1/2 SL OOP 3bet pot Overs+NFD Quote
12-04-2013 , 01:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94
I probably would have just folded pre from SB here.
Agree. Just lose one dollar and get on to the next hand. AQ isn't the greatest and it's bogus oop against a woman opening big from ep.

c/c and b/c are the same really here. c/c could net you a free card because she is a woman and might "slowplay" here premiums and then if it hits turn you could easily get her money at least by the river.

b/c is good also because we miiiiiiiight have some slight fe if she has qq again.

Either way, we're never folding, and eventually we are getting our money in this pot.

Ahh screw it, just b/c here. If no spade or Ace comes on turn and you bet she might call here, so just go ahead and bet flop.
1/2 SL OOP 3bet pot Overs+NFD Quote
12-04-2013 , 03:58 PM
+1 to folding pre. Is she ever raising 20 with less than AQ? Doubt it. Taking a random stab at a range I would say AK, JJ+. Not a fun pot to be in OOP.
1/2 SL OOP 3bet pot Overs+NFD Quote
12-04-2013 , 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cas1201111
My first instinct was to discount or minimize big premiums from her range.
In hind site I'm not happy with my reasoning here necessarily and don't like my PF 3! at all.

This particular player was someone who I was looking to play pots against. Anybody else think that folding pre is better than flatting?

Being OOP obviously stinks but folding here PF just seems too nitty.
Wait, you discounted QQ+, she's passive fit/fold and you think 3betting is bad because why? she showed up with top set and stacked you?

this is just a cooler situation imo, sorry you bricked but if you got it in on the flop, it's fine and NH
1/2 SL OOP 3bet pot Overs+NFD Quote

      
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