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<img / Should I shove on the river or give up? <img / Should I shove on the river or give up?

08-22-2013 , 04:12 PM
$1/$2 at Hollywood Casino at Charles Town, WV

Table is very timid. Hero has been playing for about 2 hours and has semi-reckless image. I’ve been card dead and have picked up a few pots in position with rags like 7-3 suited. Last pot I played I turned a Jack high flush and lost to a King high flush to the table short stack.

Villain is to Hero’s immediate left and seems solid and aggressive in position.

Stacks are: Villain ($450-500ish)
Hero: ($150)

Action folds to Hero in the CO who raises A4 to $11. Villain calls $11 OTB and the blinds fold.

Pot: $25
Flop: 8 – 4 – 2 rainbow

Hero c-bets $15 and villain quickly calls.

Pot: $55
Turn: J

I’m thinking he has 9-8 or 8-7 and I bet $30. This time villain thinks about 15 seconds and throws in the call.

Pot: $115
River: 6
Hero?

The 7-5 straight and runner runner flush gets there. I still think he has a weak 8 and the best way to win is shipping river for last $95 but would appreciate your feedback. Hero has been playing recreationally for past 12 months about 2-3 sessions a month.
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08-22-2013 , 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goose00
I’m thinking he has 9-8 or 8-7
This is not the way that winning players think when they play. Put your opponent on a range of hands, and its certainly not only 98 or 87.

Also, can you explain why you think he has 98 or 87, instead of say, A8s, A2s, 55, 66, 77, etc.... certainly those hands are in his range as well.
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08-22-2013 , 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgcounty
This is not the way that winning players think when they play. Put your opponent on a range of hands, and its certainly not only 98 or 87.

Also, can you explain why you think he has 98 or 87, instead of say, A8s, A2s, 55, 66, 77, etc.... certainly those hands are in his range as well.
Good point. I am definitely to guilty of assigning opponents specific hands versus ranges. I should have been thinking suited Ace hands as well. I think 66 or 77 he raises me preflop as I have seen him do to others when he is in position.
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08-22-2013 , 04:26 PM
Hero has a reckless image and you're going to try and bluff shove the river? Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. I'm fine with the play through the flop. I probably just give up the turn and move on. Find another spot to play on your image.
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08-22-2013 , 04:33 PM
I thought the turn card was a decent bluff card if your image were solid but given your spewy image youre getting looked up light anyway. So im on the ship of give up the turn in this case. River shove looks definitely spewy and very suspicious.
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08-22-2013 , 04:57 PM
Agree with you both on the disconnect between what I'm trying to rep and what my image is. I haven't really bluffed to this point but have won with rags which makes it hard to rep an over pair. At the time I was torn between checking and thinking a shove might be enough for him to fold an 8. What about a smaller bet of around $55-60 leaving me with $30-40 behind? Less suspicious than a shove?
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08-22-2013 , 05:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goose00
Agree with you both on the disconnect between what I'm trying to rep and what my image is. I haven't really bluffed to this point but have won with rags which makes it hard to rep an over pair. At the time I was torn between checking and thinking a shove might be enough for him to fold an 8. What about a smaller bet of around $55-60 leaving me with $30-40 behind? Less suspicious than a shove?
What better hands does he fold? He probably isn't folding an 8 here. Maybe if he got sticky with 55 or 77. That's about it.

What worse hands call? Nothing.

I don't think a bet here accomplishes anything. It's okay to fold sometimes.
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08-22-2013 , 06:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpbuck
It's okay to fold sometimes.
ssshhhhh. don't tell them that

OP, learn to put people on ranges and not specific hands. I'm giving up on turn as played
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08-22-2013 , 07:07 PM
There is a reason that hitting a backdoor draw is awesome, it's because they almost always get paid. People just don't believe, so repping one when you don't have it is often a disaster, you need to have a great read to do so.

I know that flop looks great to three barrel, but you aren't deep enough to scare him, couple that with a spewy image & you are going to get looked up a ton here. Once he calls the turn you definitely have to shut down if you don't improve.
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08-22-2013 , 10:49 PM
Thank you for all the feedback. Looking back, checking the river and maybe even the turn is the right move. As you can probably tell, hero shoved all in for final $95 on river. Then it gets interesting. Villain tanks for at least a minute and reluctantly tosses in four green chips for a call. I know I'm cooked so I turn of my fourth pair and say "nice call."

To my surprise villain smirks, taps his cards face down on the felt and MUCKS. The entire table cannot believe the attempted hero call and that fourth pair is good in a ~$300 pot.

Villain says later that he also had a pair of fours and knew I was full of ****. I just happened to be lucky enough to have him out kicked.
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08-22-2013 , 10:58 PM
Like Jim Valvano said 'Don't give up. Don't ever give up.'
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