This hand happened two weeks ago so I may be a little off on hand description.

Villain 1: Loose-passive player preflop, passive player after flop, only seen this player call after flop but probably has only been at table for 3 orbits.

Hero: has a tag image been card dead and around $275 in a 1/2 Max buyin 200 game.

Preflop: Hero delt AQ, UTG+1 hero raises to 16. Villain 2 calls from MP, Villain 1 calls from Cut-off.


Flop: Pot~50 K42 Villian 1 ~180.
The board is pretty dry I decided to fire 30 most likely villains will fold if they missed the K, MP folds, Villain (Cut-off) calls

Turn: 9 I decided to check behind because I think I am killed and he may be floating his pair of Kings to get more money out of me. Villain Checks

River:Me ~225, Villain ~150, Pot ~100 river 6, I decided to check behind because I wouldnt be able to get this call station off any pair here.

Villain fires 50, which I thought was weird, I had a feeling he was either really strong or he missed some draw.

Hero???

Let me know what you'd do on the river and if you would of taken a different line after the turn or river.

Raised too much preflop, and Cbet too big. It's a bad flop to cbet imo.

Whether you have the best hand jere on the river or not in this exact hand, it's a pretty easy fold. The reason most people are at 1-2 is becuase they call too much, so just try to value bet against them more, and not go for hero calls. Becuase hero calls at 1-2 are -ev because people take such ******ed lines.

Explain. He got called by A5 after all.

(Haven't read spoiler) Ya, I would downsize the PF raise amount. Cbetting is fine here. If he is really loose passive, and not a thinking player you could donk river here to get missed FD's to fold. As played fold river.

At the charity casino I play at a $10 raise doesn't get it done before the flop, if you raise 10 you'll get 6 callers. i like to raise 15 from early pos. and toward the cutoff or button maybe 12 or 10. If you want me raising 10 from UTG+1 i mine as well just limp AQ as Ill get as many callers.

OP... If you are getting called by worse with big preflop raises... please do not change it.

As played I'm folding here. I don't think you are good most of the time given V description. You are essentially hero calling a passive player at a 1/2 game. That's burning money a decent amount of the time IMO.

He got two callers with that raise. Dynamics of the table may necessitate that large of a bet.

Don't know why you think this is a bad flop to cbet, either. 1-2 villains put you on AK by default when you raise preflop. Now you've got TPTK in their eyes. Could fold out midling PP.

I do agree that the hero call is not worth it. Though I don't really hate it. With more info, there might be justification.

Edit: just reread villain description. If you haven't seen him bet postflop, what makes you think he is bluffing here? He maybe just decided his KT was good after two checks from you.

In three orbits I have seen him go to show down several times just calling calling. It was out of character for him to make a bet (esp. this large) I feel that he would of bet smaller to get value out of me. At the time, with the reads on the player, his line didn't make much sense.

1/2 pot bet is large?

For the Villain, Yes

He had no idea what bet sizing was.

Well that's something, I guess. But even so, you need to be pretty damn sure he is bluffing to call with ace high. Even a passive donk can find his balls after being checked to twice. Plus, he might be bluffing with the best hand.

I think you need some evidence that villain is capable of bluffing with complete air before you can make this call. On the bright side, at least you now have that evidence.

Villains may be calling big PF raises with worse, but playing a bloated pot OOP is difficult and there are obviously easier ways to make money at this table. I've struggled with these types of scenarios at 1-2nl as well. I prefer a smaller PF raise to allow the hero to fire twice without committing. As played I like the Cbet and the fold on the river. Note his bluff sizing and move on.

Also, I don't think his range is as polarized as you do. I think he can bet a king or a nine here, as well as some under pairs; thinking he is good, and being unfamiliar with the concept of showdown value.

So you only like playing bloated pots where we are ahead when you are IP? Again, if Villain is going to put money in as a dog for big amounts of money then we need to take advantage of that. What easier way is there to make money??? If you know please tell me. Do you only like committing when you have the absolute nuts? In a perfect world we would all raise 3x, but then again if we did that and it generally went HU we would be asking for a table change.

I think myshadow makes a good point. He could be betting all types of pair just because he can. He could be betting a 6 just for the sake of it. I don't think he's polarised at all really and you described him as loose passive post. ALso, you said he's only been at the table 3 orbits. In this time you can get a decent idea of his style, but certaintly not a solid read to call this bet imo.

As for pre, the raise is good, your getting called by worse hands for sure. I don't like a cbet if your not going to follow up in some way on later streets. A loose passive can peel one very easily otf and bet/giveup just lets him get to showdown easily.

And are you asking a question here or just telling everyone you called with A high and was right?

grunch......fold river.

Position, position, position...

Against poor villains hand strength is AT least as valuable. As I've said in other threads, I've never seen somebody get awarded a pot at showdown by flipping over the button. Obv I'd rather have both but I'd take playing big pots (or inflated as some people insist on calling them) against weak players with good cards every single hand even if I had to play OOP for all of them.

I read that somewhere in a book one time. Then I played 1/2 nl and realized something even more important... VALUE VALUE VALUE

Reread my original post boys cuz your kinda splitting hairs here. My advice to the OP was not against raising AQ from EP. It was against raising 8xBB. My standard line here would be $11 tops, unless there are exceptional dynamics at this table. I feel that even against extremely weak opposition, $16 PF is going to fold out a lot of hands you dominant (i.e.-QJ, Q10, AJ, and A10).

Nothing here said anything about table dynamics which clearly on his table 8xBB raises are getting called by worse hands.

We never said you said (*level 3 debating here*) do not raise AQ from EP but rather we told you that raising more than the "standard," if one even exists in 1/2, is more valuable here. You even say in this statement unless there are exceptional table dynamics... looks like this is one of those times.

As you can see I clearly stated that if he is getting called by worse with big preflop raises, aka table dynamics, then do not stop what he is doing... while you said in your first statement not to do it because you are OOP playing bloated pots and there are easier ways to make money.

I don't think we are splitting any hairs here.

Along the raise sizing and "value" points.... I am a freaking rock. If you see me at your table and play a pot with me in it, you're pretty dumb imo. However, they do.

Keep raising AQ big from ep. If no one calls, it's only because no one had anything to call with. They want to call big raises just a little less than smaller raises......let them.

AcePlayerDeluxe,
This is a moderately interesting argument. Why don't you post a fresh thread detailing the situation and your argument and see what the forum has to say, since this is buried in a dated thread. I'd be surprised if the respected members of the forum actually agreed with you. I simply don't have the patience to explain it to you.

I would rather raise to 16 and get one or two callers, than raise to 10 and get 4 or 5. Either way, you're playing a bloated pot, difference is you have more equity versus fewer villains.

If you can get headsup or threeway with only a 10 dollar bet, by all means do it. But that's often not the case in 1-2 games.

Your wish is my command.... http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...-much-1158380/