I would have bet flop if only the CO or D were behind me. I don't particularly enjoy bloating pots OOP with marginal hands, especially since I considered V1 to be a competent TAG.

Why? Unless you think that guy was lying about his hand, you induced a bluff and played it perfectly to extract the maximum except for the fact that you folded the river.

That's correct but specific only to his bluffs. Would he really value-bet a worse hand?

I agree with some of the other posters in that if I check-call, I should expect to lose a majority of the time (losing to hands like AT, A9, A5, KQ, 87, etc.).

Whereas if I bet and only get called, I can expect to win a majority of the time (get called by Ax). I don't think he can bluff raise on the River (I could also have KQ or Aces-up there), so I can confidently bet/fold River.

+1

AP I'm not paying off $70. It's not a sizing many players in this game would use for 1p Axcc and bluffs are scarce here. I would have bet 40 - worse can still call quite a bit because theyre all awful, better will be forced to just call, straights raise of course which makes for a routine fold.

This forum hasn't changed much. Bunch of crows...Call, Call Call, bet more pre, fold pre, bet bigger on flop. (Plus GG the nit)

Keeping ranges wide to induce bluffs. Isn't the end game in poker. In the instance it actually put us in tough spot.

I had 2 very similar hands last night. Where I got to river on super wet connected boards where both turn and river helped opponents range emmensly. And I was stuck with crappy 2 pair. First time vs station was little easier to just value bet. 2nd time vs Top 3 player in player pool.

Both called. Both likely also would have bet (for different reasons). Had I induced a bluff, I undoubtedly would have been in super tough spot.

looking for max value via inducing really hurts overall game in more than few areas.

You're thinking on a winning level. Good flop check and clearly this is one of your worst bet bets when taking a line where you shouldn't have any bluffs. Because of that, I would have bet more ott, but that's just nitpicking.

would you have checked AK or AQ on the river?????
I wouldn't

so V1 is representing the AQ hand

Im calling here

Could someone talk about why checking flop is good.

I guess it's a gto consideration to protect checking range(seems like a bad candidate) or an assessment of mp9k being too weak to bet oop vs 2 opp's given potential difficulty/exploitability to play going forward but strong enough to check call/reassess.

I tell myself that I don't mind building the pot because I don't mind playing difficult spots later in the hand because I'm better than my opponents but maybe I *do* mind and am scared money and by betting the flop I give up some value to have safer/easier decisions down the way.

It is to strengthen your check range. We all play against guys who cbet way to much. What do we do when they finally check? We bet. Because they always blast away with anypair or draw.

It is hard to check top pair alot. So checking middle pair accomplishes alot. Really can make villains think twice about taking stabs. Especially weak/tight opponents.

However on this board I would check call J9.

9 on this board blocks hands we can get value from. Q9 and 89. Plus it's the worst possible kicker we can show up with.

ty for reply. I can see using TQ, TK and TA to strengthen check range because when the overcard hits we sometimes make 2 pair. Also, 9T seems worth a bet rather than a check by only a little and to strengthen our check range we would use hands that strengthen it a lot like AJ.

I guess when we balance ranges we are also having to balance lines, as in, balanced check/bet/check-raise ranges but also balanced check-call-to-check-blank-turn range *and* check-call-to-donk-blank-turn range.

Back to 9T here, checking 9T without ever donking blank turns seems too exploitable facing tp betting for value and allowing pure bluffs and semi-bluffs to check behind.

so if you bet flop and get called ; how is this easier for you ??
do you always assume they called with TP?

I think I can eliminate all pure trash hands from their range and some others.

I assume they call or raise w tp+ and some draws.

If I bet and get called and turn blanks I will usually keep betting, valuing owning myself against tp+ but setting my own price. Some questionable J's and better T's will fold to me here sometimes.

If I get called and river blanks I think I usually check and play poker-usually call. I would play AJ the same way.

To the people betting this river, you betting be playing your KQ this way.

I think betting Turn and River would be fairly consistent with a KQ line.

I just prefer not to use hands that may have a chance of 3 streets of value. Plus I don't want to use AJ as it is my most common top pair hand.

I don't understand. Please explain.

Generally when I flop TPTK. I am for sure going for 2 streets of value. But sometimes when board runs out super dry. We can go for 3 streets of value. I am never going to value bet J-9 3 streets on Jack high board. But AJ I may.

Imagine the turn and river being 2x-2x no flush coming home. I am confidently betting 3 streets for value with AJ. J9 I still prefer to play 2 streets.