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Old 10-21-2017, 01:21 PM   #1
Scooo13zzz
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Spade 1-2 River Check Raise Decision

Hey guys would really appreciate some feedback on this interesting hand. No read only 3rd hand at this table. Keep in mind this is a 1-2 game so take into consideration typical 1-2 player thinking.

folds to villain(200BB) Raises $12.00

hero(150BB) Calls $12.00 A10

blinds fold

Pot= $27.00

FLOP- AQ10

Villain- Bets $15.00

Hero- Calls $15.00

Thoughts on 3 betting flop? I prefer just a call but would like some opinions.

Pot= $57.00

Turn- 2

Villain- bets $35.00

Hero- calls $35.00

Pot- $127.00

River- 2

Villain-Checks

Hero-bets $50.00 (thoughts on sizing?) I went smaller to get called by all his Ax range and maybe even KQ QJ as played thus far he seems polarized. I also have A blocker

Villain- check raises $150.00

Hero-ill be honest I was completely thrown off. No read and remember this is 1-2$. with 1-2 experience I don't know too many players check raising rivers without the goods.

THOUGHTS !?!?!
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Old 10-21-2017, 01:38 PM   #2
chunkOchips
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Posts: 386
Re: 1-2 River Check Raise Decision

Fold river. They have flush if not boat. Im usually raising flop or turn on wet board like this with two pair. If 3! Its an easy fold. Also, its hard to 3 bet if there isnt a 2nd bet (referring tp your question on flop)
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Old 10-21-2017, 02:45 PM   #3
Medicchris
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Re: 1-2 River Check Raise Decision

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooo13zzz View Post
Hey guys would really appreciate some feedback on this interesting hand. No read only 3rd hand at this table. Keep in mind this is a 1-2 game so take into consideration typical 1-2 player thinking.



folds to villain(200BB) Raises $12.00



hero(150BB) Calls $12.00 A10



blinds fold



Pot= $27.00



FLOP- AQ10



Villain- Bets $15.00



Hero- Calls $15.00



Thoughts on 3 betting flop? I prefer just a call but would like some opinions.



Pot= $57.00



Turn- 2



Villain- bets $35.00



Hero- calls $35.00



Pot- $127.00



River- 2



Villain-Checks



Hero-bets $50.00 (thoughts on sizing?) I went smaller to get called by all his Ax range and maybe even KQ QJ as played thus far he seems polarized. I also have A blocker



Villain- check raises $150.00



Hero-ill be honest I was completely thrown off. No read and remember this is 1-2$. with 1-2 experience I don't know too many players check raising rivers without the goods.



THOUGHTS !?!?!


Just to clarify, a 3 bet would be him betting, you raising, him re raising, you calling, but that's just semantics. Pre flop, the blinds are considered the first bet, therefore, you raising him would be a 3 bet.

OTF, remember, you bet for 3 reasons, value, info, or a bluff. In this case, a raise would be warranted for information. If he flats, it's likely just a C bet and maybe a draw, if he 3 bets you, you're probably beat and can exit stage left minimizing your loses. When you flat call, he probably puts you on a draw or Ax.

The turn is a blank, he's betting here assuming it missed you entirely, i.e.; didn't complete your draw or improve your A. A call from you is about all you can do, a raise won't make any sense.

OTR, he's checking here because the club most likely scared him, or because he has you on something completely different and is banking on you bluffing at the pot. On your end, think about what you beat. AK, AJ, QT. Otherwise, you're only getting called by what beats you. Without being sure you have the nuts here, it's smarter just to check it down and show. When he raises you, he either thinks he has you beat (in which case he probably does), or he's spewing as a last ditch effort. Tough call.




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Old 10-21-2017, 04:07 PM   #4
haha_TP
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Posts: 383
Re: 1-2 River Check Raise Decision

Well first of all, I don't like calling raises w/ ATo unless you are in the big blind. Either he is a tight player and you fold or is a LAG and you can 3 bet him since you are ahead of his range + you have position so he's either going to be folding too much or playing a wide range out of position, either of which should be good for you. If he is an unknown, I just fold pre and give him the benefit of the doubt.

On the flop, I think I favor a call. We're not exactly stoked to get the money in vs. most players and also calling with hands like this protects our call range.

On the river, this is actually a very thin value bet. In fact it's a bad bet unless he calls w/ a lot of Ax hoping to chop. I gave him this range on the river that would continue vs our bet:

http://www.pokerstrategy.com
Board: AsQcTc2d2c
Equity Win Tie
UTG 34.55% 34.55% 0.00% { ATo }
UTG+1 65.45% 65.45% 0.00% { AA, QQ, TT, AJs+, KJs, AJo+, KJo }


After the check/raise, again I would give an unknown the benefit of the doubt. We only beat hands like J9/J8/QJ etc and I'm not giving an unknown credit for bluff raising here. Even from a GTO point of view, we're at the bottom of our value bet range, so we should fold when raised.
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Old 10-22-2017, 07:45 AM   #5
GenghisKhan
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Re: 1-2 River Check Raise Decision

1. Calling with a marginal Ace preflop is a mistake. Instead either 3! or fold.
2. Calling on the flop it's another mistake. Instead, why not raise?
3. Calling on the turn it's another mistake. Why not raise now?

#1 a strategical mistake
#2 and 3 are "lost of street value" mistakes

The way I see is this,
You should have won all this mess preflop, on the flop or on the turn. Now that you participated building this pot up and faced with a shove almost the pot size when villain is representing a flush, you got to fold. For sure he's not betting that way with TP. Considering typical 1-2 players thinking, you should fold.

Small stakes players have an unique way of thinking and acting. They play what I call "reverse poker". They bet/call small bets when they have the best of it and they give big action after they've become the second best. Funny but true.

Last edited by GenghisKhan; 10-22-2017 at 07:52 AM.
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Old 10-22-2017, 07:51 AM   #6
Chicagodude
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Re: 1-2 River Check Raise Decision

I would shove flop.....on the river check back, most guys are tricky with flushes at 1/2.
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Old 10-22-2017, 10:58 AM   #7
NutJob72
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Re: 1-2 River Check Raise Decision

Quote:
Originally Posted by GenghisKhan View Post
1. Calling with a marginal Ace preflop is a mistake. Instead either 3! or fold.
2. Calling on the flop it's another mistake. Instead, why not raise?
3. Calling on the turn it's another mistake. Why not raise now?

#1 a strategical mistake
#2 and 3 are "lost of street value" mistakes

The way I see is this,
You should have won all this mess preflop, on the flop or on the turn. Now that you participated building this pot up and faced with a shove almost the pot size when villain is representing a flush, you got to fold. For sure he's not betting that way with TP. Considering typical 1-2 players thinking, you should fold.

Small stakes players have an unique way of thinking and acting. They play what I call "reverse poker". They bet/call small bets when they have the best of it and they give big action after they've become the second best. Funny but true.
+1
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Old 10-22-2017, 11:29 AM   #8
MikeStarr
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Re: 1-2 River Check Raise Decision

Here are some basics for you to follow that will instantly make you better

1) Fold AT preflop. You would be better off never ever ever calling a single raise preflop than you will calling raises with things like AT. Its trash. I can get behind a 3 bet with AT preflop, but never ever ever calling a raise with it.

2) Raise the flop when you think you are ahead. Especially when there is a flush draw and 3 cards to a straight already. Most people will never fold AK/AJ here to a flop raise.

3) Fold every single time you get raised during a hand...unless you have a freaking monster....or the raise is small enough and you have odds to call with a draw.

I promise you that if you follow these rules, your win rate will increase instantly.

You violated all 3 rules here....well if you called the river raise that is.
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Old 10-23-2017, 10:41 AM   #9
Scooo13zzz
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Re: 1-2 River Check Raise Decision

i forgot to mention I was on button and villain was in High jack if that changes anything...appreciate the feedback
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Old 10-23-2017, 11:20 AM   #10
setintostraight
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Re: 1-2 River Check Raise Decision

Big raise/shove flop with 2 pair.

AP, fold river. At LSL, a river reraise is usually the nuts. Too many combos we aren't beating got there. I like $50 as a blocker bet on the river, but a 50BB reraise means he has it.

Better for your sanity to fold anyway. I'm a bit mubsy though, but I personally try to never get into playing for stacks with Vs on whom I have 0 reads on. Would rather take it down for 20BB on the flop than play high variance.
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