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1/2 raise late position with garbage and flop bottwom 2 1/2 raise late position with garbage and flop bottwom 2

05-08-2010 , 07:21 PM
this is 200 NL

Hero's image: tight preflop raiser, takes frequent stabs at pots. only one hand shown down which was aces on a dry board.

Villain 1: large woman who likes to talk, seems to be there having a good time. raises good hands, never 3 bets, calls a lot but never get to see with what she's calling since she just folds/probably garbage. One hand I had with her I had Ad4d, the board was 2x 2d 4x, I bet 70% of the limped pot on the flop and she raised about 3x my raise and I ended up folding. She folded a worse 4 face up on the river bc some other fellow had a 2. She said after the hand she thought I had nothing so that's why she raised. Other than this, she's pretty passive and it's obvious when she has a big hand.

Dime Piece: finest woman i've played poker against, pretty passive but knows basic things.

Hero: CO - 170 to start
Dime piece: small blind about 90 to start
V1: 275ish to start

We're playing with about 7 people.

Hero in CO raises to $8 with 23 , DP calls in SB, V1 calls in BB
(pot $22)
not thrilled with the calls obv but we have position, weee)

Flop: 2 3 J
SB checks, V1 looks like she's going to bet then checks, Hero bets 15, Sb calls, BB raises to 45, hero ?

It's 30 to call in a pot of about 95

Okay so, the time she raised me with a worse 4 came consideration when she made this raise. Also, she might do this with slowplayed QQ+. And she's never doing this with a draw, seen her call passively with draws multiple times. I would be more inclined to shove if SB didn't flat which should keep the villain from raising more often. If I just call this bet I have a bit less than a psb yet. help? is there an obvious move here?

Last edited by shaggy_p; 05-08-2010 at 07:49 PM.
1/2 raise late position with garbage and flop bottwom 2 Quote
05-08-2010 , 08:41 PM
Why did you open-raise with Cupcake? Now you've got a bloated pot with a hand that, while you may be ahead now, could be counterfieted on turn or river.
1/2 raise late position with garbage and flop bottwom 2 Quote
05-08-2010 , 08:47 PM
because it folded to me, because I expected them to both fold, because if they did call I have position on them and take it down with a simple c-bet like i've been doing, and last but not least, I was getting bored.

none of these good things happen and instead I'm in a interesting spot, I would love for good players such as yourself or others to help me make a correct decision =)
1/2 raise late position with garbage and flop bottwom 2 Quote
05-08-2010 , 09:26 PM
shove and pray you don't get counterfeited. If he shows up with a set (unlikely though) that sucks.

Also, why are you trying to steal the blinds in a 1/2 game.... you realize there's only $3 in the pot
1/2 raise late position with garbage and flop bottwom 2 Quote
05-08-2010 , 09:33 PM
3 dollars is 3 dollars, you get like barely 20 hands an hour - i'm just trying to make the most of it while not wanting to completely shoot myself in the head from the boredom.
1/2 raise late position with garbage and flop bottwom 2 Quote
05-08-2010 , 09:54 PM
First, fold preflop.

Second, how good of a flop were you hoping to get with that garbage?

Reraise.
1/2 raise late position with garbage and flop bottwom 2 Quote
05-08-2010 , 09:55 PM
about the 14th best flop I was hoping for. but alright I guess it's a clear shove.
1/2 raise late position with garbage and flop bottwom 2 Quote
05-08-2010 , 10:00 PM
Preflop aside, I don't think the issue of our hand getting counterfeited is rly that great of a concern here. You also kinda have to go with this flop since it's gin and you know this person can easily have JT here. The 2 and 3 make them having 2 pair kinda unlikely, combos of sets are almost nil and they ever stack off with any TP here we're happy so...raise.
1/2 raise late position with garbage and flop bottwom 2 Quote
05-08-2010 , 10:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthritis
Preflop aside, I don't think the issue of our hand getting counterfeited is rly that great of a concern here. You also kinda have to go with this flop since it's gin and you know this person can easily have JT here. The 2 and 3 make them having 2 pair kinda unlikely, combos of sets are almost nil and they ever stack off with any TP here we're happy so...raise.
thank you for the more in depth/comforting explanation because it's what I did and was second-guessing myself.

Spoiler:
Villain 1 had J3 , gotta love 1/2 nlhe live!
1/2 raise late position with garbage and flop bottwom 2 Quote
05-08-2010 , 11:16 PM
I'll type this before I see the spoiler.

With these stacks + a villain who clearly overvalues top pair no kicker hands/does spazzy things, just jam the flop.

Preflop's pretty meh as long as you're willing to be in these high variance spots. Probably have to run the math to see if it's LT +EV to be getting into these spots tho. But considering the kind of ranges we're against in standard live games, it's probably still profitable.

Edit: just a side note, this hands makes me thinks of an almost identical flop I played at a £1/1 table. I had J2o in the BB, checked my option, identical J23r flop, I bet/3bet/folded LOL. Then again we were significantly deeper + villain was a reg I knew well, I put him squarely on 33 but turned out that he had just spazzed out pre and limped-behind in LP w J3s.
1/2 raise late position with garbage and flop bottwom 2 Quote
05-08-2010 , 11:59 PM
I thought it was a pretty easy spot to raise pf, they were more often than not giving up their blinds (should've raised to 10 or 12 probably) and check/folding a lot. Even if they check called the flop they'd fold to a turn barrel.

But ya I wish we were deeper so I would've had the luxury of a 3b without putting 2/3 of my stack in and then comfortably folding to a 4b. those J low low boards are interesting for sure. I remember one had where I limped 2 7 of hearts LP, flop come J 5 9 with two hearts, he bet 10, I raised to 30, he 3bet to 60, I 4bet to 160 and he folded J 5 face up =) We both had like 500 back, yay for deep stacks
1/2 raise late position with garbage and flop bottwom 2 Quote
05-09-2010 , 02:10 AM
As played: Raise AI, hope turn/river dont counterfeit you.

I would just fold PF though. I dont think trying to steal the blinds with garbage in a $1/2 game is +ev over time. I dont have any real math behind this, just my experience/observation over the past few years.
1/2 raise late position with garbage and flop bottwom 2 Quote

      
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