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Old 07-13-2018, 06:13 PM   #1
SUYAPA
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1/2 QQ on ugly board

Hero tight winning image. Sitting at the table for 2 hours. Stack 650

Villain tight thinking player. Stack 600

Villain makes it 16 utg+1 after one limper, mp, hj, co and sb call. Hero looks down at QQ and makes it 75 which now i think is way too small.
Only villain calls.

Flop (214) 975
Hero cbets 80, villain calls

Turn (374) 975T
Hero checks, villain checks

River (374) 975T3
Hero?

Im not sure if sizing otf is too small
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Old 07-13-2018, 06:22 PM   #2
bigdaddycope
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Re: 1/2 QQ on ugly board

Pre is on the smaller side of the spectrum, but it's not awful considering the intial open raise size...can obv go a bit bigger though.

Flop sizing is fine

Like the turn

AP, it's a pretty mandatory value bet here OTR. Obv blows if we get raised, but he has enough Tx that floated flop, 98s, 88, JJ that need to be put into a spot to hero the river. Giving these hands free showdown is too weak imo.


Smallish sizing of 140ish and Im betting here OTR with my AQ and AK w/o a spade as well.
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:32 PM   #3
Koss
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Re: 1/2 QQ on ugly board

I agree with bigdaddy's post, although the river can go either way. You could go $150 and hope to get hero'd by JJ or AK, but risk getting snapped off by slowplayed AA/KK, or raised by sets or bluffs which would be sick. You can check/call most bets on this river and give him a chance to stab. The reality is a river bet is just not getting called very often, becuase his range is very AK heavy.
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Old 07-14-2018, 09:59 AM   #4
SUYAPA
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Re: 1/2 QQ on ugly board

I just wasnīt sure if itīs better to bet myself for value or check to induce.
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Old 07-14-2018, 10:00 AM   #5
RagingOwl
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Re: 1/2 QQ on ugly board

Preflop sizing is ok. You thinned the field and drove a very low SPR. It's hard to criticize the play given results.

Flop is too small. We have an overpair with a low SPR. We should at least consider the possibility of wanting to play for stacks.

there's 525 left to play, and 3 streets. 115/175/235 seems like a reasonable breakdown. You can get called by worse.

That's how I would play it. And I would bet all three streets.

When he just flats pre-flop and on flop, I'm starting to seriously doubt AA/KK. If he's slowplaying...hats off to him. He made a good adjustment against an aggressive line. That's poker. I'm not gonna start tip-toeing through hands "just in case".
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Old 07-14-2018, 10:41 AM   #6
MikeStarr
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Re: 1/2 QQ on ugly board

I dont think villain is checking 99+ back on the turn. I dont think he has anything that can call a bet. I would check/call the river. There's a pretty good chance hes got a busted FD and might bet. He could have 88 and might bluff but wont call a bet.

What worse hand is going to call a bet that wouldnt bet himself? AT? Is a tight thinking player really raising AT in EP and calling a large 3 bet? I guess maybe JsTs is the only worse hand he can really have that you get value from that will check back if you dont bet...and its highly suspect that he calls with JT anyway.
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Old 07-19-2018, 05:07 AM   #7
SUYAPA
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Re: 1/2 QQ on ugly board

I bet 140 otr. Villain thought about it for a minute and folded
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Old 07-19-2018, 11:44 AM   #8
shorn7
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Re: 1/2 QQ on ugly board

I think river is a b/f here. But I can understand Mike's reasoning for check/call. Only reason I don't like that is if we show weakness twice, V can bluff shove the river which makes us puke. Yes you are going to V-own yourself vs AA/KK when he has slowplayed those but, he probably just calls so you can set the bet size (versus calling whatever he bets).
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Old 07-19-2018, 12:17 PM   #9
whatnow88
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Re: 1/2 QQ on ugly board

I guess I'm different on this one.

pre I would make it around $115 because we are so deep and I don't mind taking down $75 pre no contest. (are we still deep if he makes it $16 as an open?)

once he calls the pot is around $290
I would bet really small around $100

turn pot is around $490
I'm just gona move all in here V has around $385 left
(I'm assuming KK and AA would 4 bet)
Like you guys said most of his range is flush draws


That's what I would have done. It's probably not the best line and maybe I should change it
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Old 07-19-2018, 12:42 PM   #10
bigdaddycope
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Re: 1/2 QQ on ugly board

if villain is actually a good thinking player like OP described I think his range in this spot is a lot wider than people are giving him credit for. Yeah hero raised 5x but there were 4 callers of the original raise. villain is getting a crazy good price to flat a lottttt of hands here...especially if he's expecting him calling to open the flood gates for tons of other callers.

Once we establish that...I think V has a lot of middling pocket pairs that are forced to call the flop b/c we're heads up, he has a lot of gut shots, and we are probably perceived to be betting this board a ton.

Then we check turn....which is fine but..

now villain gets to the river with (IMO) wayy more middling value hands that we need to keep from getting to a free showdown.
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Old 07-19-2018, 01:30 PM   #11
whatnow88
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Re: 1/2 QQ on ugly board

what middling value hands are you thinking of?
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Old 07-19-2018, 05:38 PM   #12
bigdaddycope
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Re: 1/2 QQ on ugly board

66, 88, 89s, JsTs, AsTs, KsTs, QsTs, JJ, 78s and there's probably even a few more you could find tbh.

all of these seem reasonable to me. Obv he might raise the flush draws at some freq on the flop but he can def have them.
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Old 07-19-2018, 09:24 PM   #13
whatnow88
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Re: 1/2 QQ on ugly board

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdaddycope View Post
66, 88, 89s, JsTs, AsTs, KsTs, QsTs, JJ, 78s and there's probably even a few more you could find tbh.

all of these seem reasonable to me. Obv he might raise the flush draws at some freq on the flop but he can def have them.

bet/fold bet/fold bet/fold can't be a bad line
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