South Florida

Is this spew?

1 fold
4 limps
Hero on (BU, $210) QQ raises to $13 (standard raise is $7-$11 at this table)
SB folds
Villain (BB, $135) calls. He is <35 male who has been in for one orbit. He made some comment about how, when you have a hand and bet the flop, you should check the turn so your opponents don't fold, and then bet the river. Loose Passive but showed bottom pair and lost after he bet river and got called in a 3 way limped pot that checked to the river).

Pot ($32)
$122 eff stacks
Flop K108
BB bets $27
Hero calls $27

Pot ($85)
$95 eff stacks
Turn brings J
BB bets $50
Hero thinks for 1min and shoves $95 into $135


Surely I must be calling the flop some of the time? Even though it's a big donk, he could have a lot of hands that donk this flop.My equity is OK 40% against {KK-TT,88,ATs+,K2s+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KTo+,QTo+,JTo} which might donk.

Plus I figured he might check turn per his theory from earlier.

OTT, might he fold enough for this shove to be OK? He only has to call $45 in a $230 pot though.
If called, my equity is decent against his range of straights, sets, two pair, top pair, OESDs and a few A-high flushes that backdoor on the turn, around 30%.

This play is break even if he folds 45% of the time. The problem is I think his entire range that bets the turn calls all in getting nearly 5 to 1.


Thoughts appreciated.

Don't post results. It skews our feedback.

If my math is correct, he only has $45 left after he bets $50 on the turn. If so, yes, your raise is spew. You can't expect him to fold. You pretty much said so yourself.

But I think the key decision is on the flop. V is a basic unknown. What hands do you think V donks the flop with that you can beat? QJ? A10?

You need to have a plan for the hand. When you called the flop, what was your plan? To pray he checked the turn? Hope to spike a set? Trying to push him off his hand when he's getting extreme pot odds is super -EV. Raising the flop would have better than flatting.

As tight as it sounds, I think I nit up and fold the flop. Take the $13 hit, and don't show when you fold. At least until we gather more information on this V to see how good of an opponent he is. If V was deeper, I could call flop and re-evaluate on the turn.

Thats pretty much right, I would only add that I think your preflop raise is a bit light, I would have raised preflop to about 18-25 since there are 4 limpers, that would have folded some medium aces/kings that can call 13$ and beat you when they catch the flop.

Ps: I don't see how it causes a problem to post the results of the hand. Just don't read it if you dont want, but personnally I like to see how the guy played the hand to rate his play.

Don't post results. Ever. Learning to play poker is about acting and responding logically to the cards you hold, to what opponents do and have done, and to the board. Knowing your opponents' cards and the idiosyncratic way these specific opponents chose to play them doesn't facilitate this process - it makes it harder.

That said, raise more PF - if standard raise is in the $7 - $11 range, after 4 limpers and your call there's already $13 in the pot, and if I haven't seen too many limp-shoves I make it around $20 - $25 total. If they all fold you made $11, no rake, no tip.

You want to build a pot with the best hand, you want to play QQ, which is likely to make a one pair hand, up against one or at the most two other players, and you want to lower the SPR so you can make a <pot size shove on the turn and get a call.

So, flop comes K high, no flush draw. Is opponent making a PSB here with an OESD often enough to call, when you most likely holding is AK? Without solid reads of his aggressive tendencies I'm letting it go. You're not deep enough to rep anything and make him fold a weak K.

What hands are you trying to make fold OTT?
Let's be hopeful and put the bottom of his range, say he is donking Kx OTF and c-betting the turn with it. He either has hit two pair or has a top pair and an OESD with KQ and K9. You have no fold equity.

You should fold flop to the donk. It's going to be Kx+ like almost always. The K hits your perceived range pretty hard.

I would raise more preflop. As played I would probably just fold the flop rather than get involved in an escalating pot where you're just guessing the entire way. Get more information on the guy first.

Personally I disagree with not showing results, for reasons that I consider very valid, but I'm know I'm swimming upriver in this forum so I rarely comment on it.