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1/2 QQ heads up 1/2 QQ heads up

05-05-2010 , 02:29 AM
1/2 NL at Beau Rivage in Biloxi.
Ive only been seated for 1 orbit or so. No real reads besides the fact that villian isn't a complete idiot. By no means great or extra tight, just not the worst Ive ever seen.

Hero $400 in the CO with QQ
Villian covers in MP
Villian raises to 17, 1 caller in MP2, Hero 3 bets to $60, Villian calls, Mp2 folds.

Flop: A 8 6 rainbow. (pot is approx. 140)
Villian Checks,Hero bets $120, Villian calls (is betting out here the standard play against most villians or is a check in order?)
Turn: 3 (Pot is approx 380)
Hero ???

I dont really have a solid range im putting him on here because like i said, I dont know too much about how he is playing.The pot is pretty big in relation to the stacks already, so if anymore goes in, I am pretty commited. I just dont like stacking off with a PP here with an overcard on the board.
1/2 QQ heads up Quote
05-05-2010 , 06:31 AM
I would check the turn. But I'm no good.
1/2 QQ heads up Quote
05-05-2010 , 06:55 AM
On the flop I check this back. As played check the turn. What's he putting you on? You reraised pf and bet the flop when an A came. He's gotta put you on something good... What's worrying me is the 8.5x pf raise he did... whats with that? Tied with the check call on the flop smells like AK at least here. Check/fold turn.
1/2 QQ heads up Quote
05-05-2010 , 09:55 AM
I think you've played it fine so far. My standard play in situations like this is to take one shot on the flop and then shut it down if they call.
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05-05-2010 , 10:28 AM
if hero shoved the rest on the turn here is this a bad play and -ev for this specfic situation? please explain the answer
1/2 QQ heads up Quote
05-05-2010 , 10:42 AM
If you check the flop, it screams you don't like the Ace. Betting out is not only standard there, it's smart (you keep control of the pot). The problem is that the flat call from villain on the flop indicates he isn't scared of you or the Ace. It's unlikely to be a float by villain because the pot is now bloated. This seems to me like villain has A/Q and he's trying to keep the pot small-ish in case you have A/K.

As played, you should check the turn. You are either way ahead or way behind.
1/2 QQ heads up Quote
05-05-2010 , 11:59 AM
Checking the flop is better. If you have no history with this guy, he's so likely to just fold worse hands like 99/TT to a flop bet because that's what live players do. No A is folding obviously. I like checking flop to induce bluffs on the turn or get value on the turn from worse. Just balance by checking AA/AK/A rag on these flops in 3bet pots

Oh yeah, and one of the more reliable live tells is when someone makes a huger than normal PF raise it's cause they have TT/JJ and don't wanna see a flop FWIW
1/2 QQ heads up Quote
05-05-2010 , 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggerbaz
if hero shoved the rest on the turn here is this a bad play and -ev for this specfic situation? please explain the answer
The play you are asking about is very dependent on the villain, hero's image, game dynamics, game history, etc.

In this situation, just getting to the table, and the hero pushing the turn more times than not I expect him to get looked up by a lot of your typical random villains playing any Ax hand.

If the villain is weak/passive you are getting looked up, if the villain is weak/tight then there is a pretty good chance we induce a fold. Since you are more likely to be up against a w/p than a w/t player, pushing can not be +EV.

Last edited by Percula; 05-05-2010 at 12:47 PM. Reason: typo
1/2 QQ heads up Quote
05-05-2010 , 12:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jFearxx
Oh yeah, and one of the more reliable live tells is when someone makes a huger than normal PF raise it's cause they have TT/JJ and don't wanna see a flop FWIW
Very true but what does that have to do with this hand?

A $17 PFR while an unusual amount ($15 or $20 would be much more common) it is square in the middle of a typical range for a PFR in the typical 1/2 game.
1/2 QQ heads up Quote
05-05-2010 , 12:59 PM
You are playing this too fast against an unknown. You have half your stack in there.

You turned your hand into a bluff on the flop. Preflop raise is too big, flop bet is plain bad.

Solid ABC play is so +EV live that trying to get it all so fast is unnecessary and well, I read this and it was a facepalm moment tbh.
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05-05-2010 , 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jolyroger
You are playing this too fast against an unknown. You have half your stack in there.

You turned your hand into a bluff on the flop. Preflop raise is too big, flop bet is plain bad.

Solid ABC play is so +EV live that trying to get it all so fast is unnecessary and well, I read this and it was a facepalm moment tbh.
What? Ever heard of a continuation bet?
1/2 QQ heads up Quote
05-05-2010 , 01:08 PM
PF you raise a little less than pot. You have a strong hand and there are two players in, it is an obvious and standard raise and your bet sizing is fine. You could raise more, perhaps, depending on how likely you think they are to call a larger bet, but raising less would probably be a mistake.

The flop sucks. That's life. It happens. In some ways you have a way ahead way behind situation on the flop. What do you think your opponent calls your raise with? For some players it is their entire range, for some it is strong hands (bigger pairs and big aces). Some players do not have a range in this spot or barely have a range. Most live players are apt to call three bets so I give him a fairly wide range to get to the flop with.

I think you might have bet too much money on the flop. My default play is to bet the flop and give up if they call. So you could probably get away with betting like $90 instead of $120 to 'see if he has the ace'. Of course he could call you with 87 or 1010 but he could also check behind with those hands.

Given that he did call a pretty big bet on the flop with an ace on the board, and given that you have shown tremendous strength so far I would check very fast, like as soon as they turn came. I find if you hesitate for a while and check they are more likely to bet, but if you check fast they might check before they think and before you know it you are both turning over your cards and most of the time he wins and some of the time you win.
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05-05-2010 , 01:36 PM
I misread the HH, did not see the caller pre, so my comments were pretty stupid obv. Flop bet is still too big however. Sorry.
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05-05-2010 , 04:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jolyroger
Flop bet is still too big however. Sorry.
Roger Roger.

And personally, I would never re-raise pre-flop that much.

But that is dependent upon my home court casino were we don't normally play that rich.
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05-05-2010 , 04:59 PM
I raised about 3x his bet preflop which is my standard 3 bet size.
I checked behind on turn, River brought a blank and he fired 2/3 pot. I folded.
HE showed me AQ as he drug the pot.
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05-05-2010 , 05:11 PM
Quote:
grungedave: This seems to me like villain has A/Q and he's trying to keep the pot small-ish in case you have A/K.
Quote:
HE showed me AQ as he drug the pot.
/pats self on back for awesome interwebs hand-reading skills.

Not much you can do when he fires 2/3 on the river. You were drawing to a 1-outer and he wasn't folding to any bets you would have made post-flop.
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