SB: I've only played with small blind a few times, but I've already seen him donk several flops with a weak range and then slow down on future streets. But in this spot I would assume that he's committing himself.

Hero: reg with a tight image

Btn, def willing to gamble and shove with 2 pair + or something as weak as just a straight draw. He sees me as tight and not the gambly type.

$1/$2 NL 8 handed
http://www.pokerhandreplays.com/view.php/id/5798943
SB ($131)
Hero ($400+)
BTN ($272)

Hero is utg +1 and opens to $12 with QQ, 4 more callers so there's 5 of us total

Flop ($62)457
SB donks for $50, hero calls with 3 people left to act behind him, fold, fold, btn shoves for $260 total, SB calls his last $70, hero...

I could see btn having something like 56 a lot of the time.

What do you think about the call on the flop?

Given description of both villain's and how under repped your hand is, I would stick it in on the flop after BTN shoves.

As far as the initial flop call, I prefer to raise in this spot, but if you have a read that BTN will raise light if you just call, and you plan to get it in vs the BTN raise, then flatting SB bet is fine.

ehhhh pretty bad flop 5 ways

i may fold here. calling is fibe too but a bad board. if a flush draw board of 37J came out ad the action went the same i would snap, but this board is pretty bad

Board is pretty wet with 5 callers.

I would probably raise the 50 with 3 people acting behind me. Maybe to 125 or so to put SB all in but you don't want to commit yourself completely. As played, I would fold to the all in.

The only reason I don't like just flatting flop is because a lot of the time those early bets are to slow down action or to get value with a TPTK type hand/pair with draw (which we are ahead of). There's a FD with people left to act...have people pay to see those extra 2 cards or overplay their pair with their draw or whatever.

def raising this spot otf, i personally would raise get it in w/ a villian like the button but i'm a pretty aggressive player. So many players to the flop, i like bet folding or in this case raise folding..but you're so shallow if you raise you're getting it in..the way you played it though i might actually fold lol

Raise flop to $150 to get value from SBs draws

As played fold to the jam

He does drws in his range but they're often strong draws or draw + pair. When you include the combos of 77, 55, 44, 75s, 54s, and 86s, you're likely to be behind this range

Hey,

Preflop

Let's say Villains have both a quite wide range of about 25% after 2 people cold called the initial raise from Hero.

Flop

SB donk with 4 people left to act is at least a pair of 7 or, but less likely, a decent draw (20% of the time I'd say, the vast majority of the time he would check/call instead of leading in a 5-way).
It's a range of about 68 combos.

Btn range for shoving is at least 2 pairs or a good draw (FD/OESD) but I'd say 50% of the time he would preferably just call with his draws as he's last to act and gararanteed to see a card for a very decent price when 2 people have shown strenght before him.
That's 31 combos.

You have to call 210 to take 490 and need therefore at least 30% equity on the call.
If you plug the ranges in pokerstove you get less than 24% equity and therefore the call is bad.

What about raising the SB in the 1st place?

If you raise it's for value but with 3 people left to act with potentially strong hands or strong draws, the donk bettor that could already have you beat in which case you have very few outs, if your are called it's either by hands that already crush you or by hands that always have a very decent equity against your overpair.
All in all, I think that your hand is typically a false strong hand on this board in a 5-way and you shouldn't want to commit all your chips in this very marginal situation.

thanks for the replies guys, I probably like this on the flop now: raising > folding > calling

SB had 23 and the btn hand AT

I ended up folding on the flop and I think a 2 came on the turn, and the 23 held

here's my equity against their exact hands


Board: 745
*******Equity*****Win*****Tie
MP2****48.31%**47.64%***0.66%*{ QhQs }
MP3****21.03%**20.37%***0.66%*{ 3d2d }
CO*****30.66%**30.00%***0.66%*{ AdTd }