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1/2 QQ against good LAG 1/2 QQ against good LAG

07-03-2010 , 06:51 PM
Hi guys, just curious what you think about hand i played recently
pretty loose 8max 1/2 home game. hero is UTG with QQ, have ~700 stack and raises to 15 (standard raise in that game). 3 callers and good thinking tricky lag (best player at the table)villain who covers us calls from BB also.
i got fairly tight image and long history with villain and there's some mindgame going on between us plus he knows i'm gonna make some moves based on fact that he knows that i know that he knows and so on

flop comes 7h5d3d and villain suddenly bets 35. hero raises to 85, 3 folds, villain calls with little hesitation.
9h on the turn and villain instabets 180
the pot is 425 and hero got ~600 behind.
villain is looking commonly confident, no physical tells.
hero - ?
villain is capable of bluffing that strange, but also could easily play 2 pair or set same way since my overpair is pretty obvious.
what is your play here?
1/2 QQ against good LAG Quote
07-03-2010 , 07:37 PM
we are 350bb deep. Villain is good, and calls from BB.

I dont raise flop. As you can see, heros range is far narrower than villains and this is really bad for us.

Villain has manipulated this pot really well to where if we dont fold, he can elect to get our entire 350bb in the middle with one pair. We fail when this happens.
1/2 QQ against good LAG Quote
07-03-2010 , 10:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AintNoLimit
we are 350bb deep. Villain is good, and calls from BB.

I dont raise flop. As you can see, heros range is far narrower than villains and this is really bad for us.

Villain has manipulated this pot really well to where if we dont fold, he can elect to get our entire 350bb in the middle with one pair. We fail when this happens.
There really isn't much to say beyond this. If he can't beat your hand, why do you want him to fold?
1/2 QQ against good LAG Quote
07-03-2010 , 11:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
There really isn't much to say beyond this. If he can't beat your hand, why do you want him to fold?

i dont really understand your question, but maybe i was unclear. Villain can elect to get 350bb in the middle and HERO has only one pair. This is not good at all.
1/2 QQ against good LAG Quote
07-04-2010 , 03:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AintNoLimit
llain can elect to get 350bb in the middle and HERO has only one pair. This is not good at all.
that's true. i realised i don't wanna play for stacks with just one pair and folded. the main reason i raised is i wanted to get value from draws and maybe just top pairs as he might be leading out just to see where he's at. after all he told me he had A9 of diamonds.

is my fold not that bad in general considering situation i got myself into?

any other thoughts, despite that raise? (now i dont like it too)
1/2 QQ against good LAG Quote
07-04-2010 , 07:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AintNoLimit
i dont really understand your question, but maybe i was unclear. Villain can elect to get 350bb in the middle and HERO has only one pair. This is not good at all.
We're saying the same thing, really. The only hands that can call Hero's raise are those that beat him. Everything else that he beats, folds. I thought it goes without saying that creating a 700BB pot with one pair is a bad idea against anyone without an great read on their play (never say never in poker). Therefore, raising is bad, bad, bad.
1/2 QQ against good LAG Quote
07-04-2010 , 10:24 AM
Remember though, the fact that we may not be willing to get in 350bb with an overpair isn't necessarily an argument against raising the flop.
1/2 QQ against good LAG Quote
07-04-2010 , 12:04 PM
Why would you raise the flop and then fold the turn?
1/2 QQ against good LAG Quote
07-04-2010 , 01:19 PM
thanks for responses guys

Quote:
Originally Posted by fattony7891
Why would you raise the flop and then fold the turn?
i stated my reasons to raise earlier, and on the turn, well, i just thought i'm beat. when he bets into me again after my flop raise i was like 70% sure he improved on the turn and just wants to induce 'i-dont-think-you-have-it' shove (as it came out i was right, but i still had him beat) so basically i'm putting him on something like 9d7d/straight or air (which he could have pretty often in that spot with line he played it) . the more i think about that hand the more i prefer just calling on the turn cause it will just go check check on a lot of rivers and i don't have to put my whole stack in as often as i thought before. anyway i folded mainly because i recalled big pot played 2 days earlier when he took exactly same line with 2 pairs.

so, again, what you think is optimal play here? call call call on safe board?
and what is your play as played?
1/2 QQ against good LAG Quote

      
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