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1/2 QJs flush on paired board

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12-12-2013 , 09:00 AM

pure_aggression

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 5,287

V1 (260)- 55 yo white male, tight straight forward
V2 (220)- 40 yo white male, loose
Hero's Image (300)- 25 yo white male, nit

Preflop (3):
Hero is LP dealt Q

1 limp, V1 limps MP, Hero limps, 1 LP limp, V2 completes SB.

Flop (10):
5

Checked to V1 who bets for 10, Hero calls, V2 calls

Turn (37):
2

Checked to V1 who bets for 15, Hero calls, V2 calls

River (82):
Q

Checked to Hero who bets 30, V2 calls, V1 calls.

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12-12-2013 , 09:17 AM

savedbygrace2200

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 110

dont see a question??
would like to see us size the river to atleast 1/2-2/3

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12-12-2013 , 09:30 AM

samo

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,251

I assume you did not raise turn to keep V2 in and not fold V1. Worked since you valued both OTR, so think you played it fine.

Pre - I'd raise to $14. May be behind V1 range, but you grab the initiative and will play an "ABC" ip, where you can outplay him post-flop.

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12-12-2013 , 09:45 AM

Pay4Myschool

Haz Chuck Norris 4 Dad

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 7,462

Raise pre, bet $40-45 as played

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12-12-2013 , 01:07 PM

trucdouf

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 2,216

1. Raise pre if you're going to play this hand.

2. Must raise flop or turn.

3. Bet 40+ minimum on the river.

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12-12-2013 , 01:30 PM

The Rumor

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 9,559

I think pre is a raise over 1-2 limpers from late position.

Flop is standard.

I'm ok calling turn to trap in the other V and then lead river.

River bet is a little too small. I think 45 is better.

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12-12-2013 , 01:32 PM

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,775

Quote:

Originally Posted by trucdouf

1. Raise pre if you're going to play this hand.

2. Must raise flop or turn.

3. Bet 40+ minimum on the river.

I like this advice.

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12-12-2013 , 01:36 PM

The Rumor

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 9,559

I'd like raising flop more without V2 in the hand.

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12-12-2013 , 01:37 PM

spikeraw22

The Situation

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 8,741

Raise fold turn. Bet fold river.

Preflop is a raise. Much more profitable overall.

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12-12-2013 , 01:54 PM

#10

iraisetoomuch

banned

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 37,494

Quote:

Originally Posted by spikeraw22

Raise fold turn. Bet fold river.

Preflop is a raise. Much more profitable overall.

Agree.

I also like $35-$45 on the river. Much bigger and you risk losing one of them.

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12-12-2013 , 02:00 PM

#11

AbqDave

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 1,649

Quote:

Originally Posted by spikeraw22

Raise fold turn. Bet fold river.

Preflop is a raise. Much more profitable overall.

^^^ This.

I know you were thinking "fancy play" but in reality this is the "fish with a flush" line as mpethy puts it.

Think about it. If you had raised pre, the villains would have assumed you were on a pair or AK and would have discounted the likelihood of a made flush on the turn. Much more likely to get calls that way, maybe even from Ax.

As played, you're lucky you got any callers on the river. I wouldn't call that bet in a jillion years, unless I had you crushed of course. (Well... I assume you were lucky, no?)

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12-13-2013 , 09:30 AM

#12

11t

Bo Pelini's #1 Fan

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 31,420

Raise/f.turn b/f river for more

I also raise pf here

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12-13-2013 , 09:32 AM

#13

11t

Bo Pelini's #1 Fan

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 31,420

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbqDave

Such utter bs that people aren't calling OTR

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12-13-2013 , 11:17 AM

#14

Hollywade

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 4,551

Interesting how many people are advocating a preflop raise. OP doesn't specify his position, but it appears to be somewhere in MP.

I don't mind being aggressive, but I'm more likely to make this move if I'm Button or CO...maybe HJ. I'd rather have position on everyone if it's a raised pot.

Is there a position where you're limping instead of raising? For example, if it goes limp-limp and you're third to act, will you just limp at that point?

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12-13-2013 , 11:19 AM

#15

11t

Bo Pelini's #1 Fan

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 31,420

QJs if it's like the entire table limps with awful players who are never folding I'll limp, but it's a good hand. 98s is probably a limp, T9s and JTs are dependent.

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12-13-2013 , 11:24 AM

#16

samo

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,251

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollywade

Interesting how many people are advocating a preflop raise. OP doesn't specify his position, but it appears to be somewhere in MP.

OP states Hero is LP, so I'd guess HJ or CO since there was one more limp in LP.

I don't mind being aggressive, but I'm more likely to make this move if I'm Button or CO...maybe HJ. I'd rather have position on everyone if it's a raised pot.

Is there a position where you're limping instead of raising? For example, if it goes limp-limp and you're third to act, will you just limp at that point?

I usually fold or raise QJs.

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12-13-2013 , 11:26 AM

#17

11t

Bo Pelini's #1 Fan

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 31,420

Open folding in ep is fine but not limping behind instead of folding is criminal.

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12-13-2013 , 11:38 AM

#18

daniel9861

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 3,389

I would iso pre myself but limping is better than folding. Raise turn and bet river bigger.

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12-13-2013 , 11:45 PM

#19

pure_aggression

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 5,287

Thanks for the replies. QJs plays well multiway so I don't think limping is that bad, raise is probably slightly better. Very situational.

I kind of felt V2 was strong when he called the turn. When I got checked to otr I decided on a small vbet incase V2 is trapping with a fh or better flush.

Results-

Spoiler:

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12-17-2013 , 05:27 PM

#20

slimshady1999

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 4,313

Quote:

Originally Posted by pure_aggression

Spoiler:

Betting small on the river for that reason is bad. I like a small bet on river to get a loose call because its unlikely someone has a strong second best hand, not because I'm afraid I'm beat and want to bet fold. You almost always have the best hand when checked to.

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12-17-2013 , 05:28 PM

#21

slimshady1999

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 4,313

Limping pre is fine but raise to $15 is much better if you can get it down to 1 or 2 villains. I think raise fold turn or flat turn is fine, raising turns your hand face up so its just a matter of what worse hands will call

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