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Old 08-12-2013, 02:04 PM   #26
The Rumor
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Re: 1/2 QJs 2nd barrel?

Considering the odds of a bluff raise, though, why is it that bad to bet a river with showdown value?

What's bad is betting for value when you're behind their calling range, not betting hands with showdown value.
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Old 08-12-2013, 03:14 PM   #27
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Re: 1/2 QJs 2nd barrel?

Definitely check behind. Not nearly enough hands we beat to think about betting. Just flip the cards and hope the Q is good.
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Old 08-12-2013, 03:16 PM   #28
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Re: 1/2 QJs 2nd barrel?

Fine bet, obvious call getting 5:1 with overs and a flush draw. You hit your overs but not the flush so now check it. wp.

This thinking might be lazy, but I think the $250, 125bb pot is plenty big for your TPGK. If you want to be an expert player and push a really tiny edge, go ahead and think through all the things which could happen if you raise. It will no doubt be very complicated and take alot of thought and be slightly +EV. If you are this good, the extra time it takes might be -$ since you slow the game down, so I hope your thinking is efficient and correct. (After all your hard work you may end up checking anyway, which meant it was -EV.)

But if you don't think you are way better than your opponent and want to conserve your mental energy (a limited resource), this is an easy check.
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Old 08-12-2013, 03:18 PM   #29
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Re: 1/2 QJs 2nd barrel?

Let's be clear: given the villain description, this guy isn't bluff raising the river, so it's really a question of if we think a bet can get called by a wide enough range (or if we think he'll somehow fold a better hand)
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Old 08-12-2013, 03:26 PM   #30
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Re: 1/2 QJs 2nd barrel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rumor View Post
Let's be clear: given the villain description, this guy isn't bluff raising the river, so it's really a question of if we think a bet can get called by a wide enough range (or if we think he'll somehow fold a better hand)
About turning our hand into a bluff. I could get on board with that against the right opponent if no straight was possible on the turn when villain check/raises and the river was a very scary overcard+straight filling card+flush card (so a turned 2pair has to worry about a higher 2pair, a straight and a flush all at the same time). In this hand we got the wrong type of opponent and the wrong board to run this play.

Also, never betting the river for value with this marginal of a hand in this spot without a really good read.
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Old 08-12-2013, 03:37 PM   #31
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Re: 1/2 QJs 2nd barrel?

I agree ILP
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Old 08-12-2013, 03:47 PM   #32
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Re: 1/2 QJs 2nd barrel?

Check turn. Having to b/f here is awful and this is the type of turn where we don;t get folds often enough as a decent % of his range just improved.

River is the easiest check ever. Betting is super spew. I don't expect to be good that often.
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Old 08-12-2013, 03:51 PM   #33
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Re: 1/2 QJs 2nd barrel?

also, agree with turn x vs the described villain. This guy doesn't fold. Why are we bloating the pot?
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Old 08-12-2013, 09:52 PM   #34
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Re: 1/2 QJs 2nd barrel?

Thanks for the replies

Results:
Spoiler:
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:05 PM   #35
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Re: 1/2 QJs 2nd barrel?

What does your turn bet accomplish?

This villain sounds horrible btw.
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:25 PM   #36
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Re: 1/2 QJs 2nd barrel?

I figured he was calling the flop a good portion of the time with weak holdings, as he was in almost every hand for the entire time I was there, and I could get a fold with his weaker one pair hands with no redraw or bad redraw (like A8,45 or K7, PP 44 etc) and to set up for stacks on the river if he does have a hand he wants to continue with.

And yes he was bad, but just picked up cards and hit with every hand, was quite annoying to see.
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:48 PM   #37
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Re: 1/2 QJs 2nd barrel?

take free card. as for betting to set up shove on river, nice theory but so many villains will c/f the river when the spade or 9 hits.
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Old 08-13-2013, 02:13 AM   #38
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Re: 1/2 QJs 2nd barrel?

Check turn. Villain splashing around a lot isn't going to c/f that card often or never.
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