$1/$2 blinds playing with a $250 stack. The other player is a shark that has been running over all the fish and taking their money.

I limp in for $2 with JJ. I figure there's no point raising because my hand is worthless if I get 4 callers and the flop comes Q76 for example. I'm better off just set mining.

Fish calls $2
Shark raises to $15

I reraise to $100. I'm trying to get him to fold here because this hand plays very poorly postflop and I'd rather not have to play postflop against this very strong player.

Shark asks "how much do you have behind?" And stares me down with big chips in his hand. Eventually he calls $100.

Flop comes AQ8

I check
Shark INSTANTLY announces "all-in" and stares me down. He's usually a talkative guy but this time he keeps his mouth shut and gives me an intimidating death stare.
I have a $150 stack and there's $200 in the pot.

Call or fold?

The limp/re-raise is probably good here, but the sizing isn't and the reasoning isn't. Smaller for fat value, please. And hoping it limps around so you can play JJ OOP as a set-mine is very, very, weak.

Intimidating death stare is usually a sign of weakness, but this board sucks and he likely doesn't think you could ever fold AK here, so he can likely beat it. Maybe he just has a weakness read on you, though. I'd really need to know a bit more about what kind of "shark" V is.

Your preflop logic. Oh my. Halloween horrors.

Limping with JJ? --- I never limp with 22 or 65s. Not even UTG or not even against 8 limpers. Eight limpers in front of me? - OK, here I come with my pocket 22 or 65s for 15bb or even 20bb.

Never limp as the 1st one in. How many times you guys need to hear this before you start play this game the proper way? - If you don't play like 20/15 (20% hands and 15% raising preflop) outside of the blinds, you almost got no chance unless you get lucky and hit lots of flops.

Even in the smaller games. Raising, and that doesn’t mean that you play a lot of hands, that simply means that those hands you have chosen to play, you should frequently open-raise with. Always consider raising and disregard the limpers like they don't exist. These people who raise and win – that’s why they win, because they raise. Else they wouldn't win. No matter how skilled you may be if you don't raise a lot you will not win unless the deck runs your way for long period of time and even them you make small gains. Always raise. The more players in the pot the bigger the raise until they bleed to death.

Why you think the NL was invented back in time down there in the South and in West Texas? - Well, I'm telling you why. People, the best players got sick and tired to play for the same bets on every street or some kind of limit game. That was the first limit game. Some smart dude come up with the idea to make it NL on betting because he probably figure out this way he can blow some limpers out of the pot and increase his odds. So, the limpers got to pay a premium to play and had to look for salvation to hit the flop that mostly miss anybody. So, the limpers check if they missed and the raiser c-bet and took the pot down. Very simple. Here come Doyle that perfected the whole game with his aggressive style that made him a millionaire. Why you think Doyle manage to make so much money on poker?

I'm wondering if JJ is actually the nut worst hand to limp.

As for flop who the **** knows. Perhaps he just knows your weak with the check, perhaps he has it. Whatever.

Why make it 100? Might as well go AI. Don't limp JJ in a cash game. Is this even a real hand?

I don't think is a real hand by any standards. At the least JJ should be raised at least once like 2! - I mean, wtf? .., JJ are the 3% sector of the hands table. Is all the way there in the upper left corner like JJ+ and AK. WHF are we doing here? - I raise pre even with K7s, Q9s or 75s, 64s if I have limpers in front or I'm the 1st one in. We need 20/15 ration in order to win as I said before.

Not even the best player in the world like Gus Hansen, Phil Hellmuth, Tom Dwan or I don't know, say Doyle Brunson, Todd Brunson the heavy hitters players like Daniel Negreanu .., Antonio Esfandiari .., etc .. also the last WSOP champ .., will never win if they will limp and call instead of the raising what they do. They will never win not even in a 1-2 game at The Venetian. They will all for sure lose unless they get lucky.

The fact is, raising is the way to win. There are many players who have just hit upon it, without understanding the underlying theory. And then, there are those of us who understand the theory. But the fact is, raising is the way to win.That's all part of the math in this game. If you don't raise a lot you will not win.

+1
I agree Khan. While I think your opening a little wide at least your not limping because your scared of bad flops. I rarely limp as well. I figure most of the time if it's not worth playing for a raise its a fold. Exception is overlimping some weaker speculative hands.

Sure Nut,
If your standard range is say 22+, A2s+, all suited Broadways, AKo, AQo, T9s, 98s, 87s, 65s and them add K9s, Q9s, J9s, and the marginal Aces like AJo, ATo and the KQo on the CO and BTN and to defend the blinds against a weak raise. That's about 20% and if you manage to raise 15% to get the ideal ratio of 20/15 you will crush the game.
You raise with about 15 combos hands and call about 5 out of the 20 if you got a raise in front or of course you re-raise AA, KK, QQ, AK, A5s, T9s and maybe a medium pair like 66/77/88. You 3! them until the can't take it anymore. .... ha ha ha. You also avoid AQ and 98 to not being nutted by the AK in a raised pot.

Now, if you sometime raise and some other time limp you automatically fork your range in limping weak hands and strong raising hands. So, when I see you limp I raise you. When I see you raise I get out. If I have 6 limpers I raise even more not because I have a strong hand but because I may have a hand with "equity-when-called" or a strong hands with big-card-value". Suitedness it gives the best "equity-when-called".

On the other hand the limpers and callers look for salvation on the flop, usually they look at the top card. They may hit the middle or the bottom cards but if you c-bet and they don't improve they fold. and exactly this was discovered very early in the days when NL was played in West Texas and the South. They figure limpers need to hit the flop in order to continue. All this holds true for bottom pair, middle pair, TP with weak kicker and any other pair unimproved on the flop. Now, that's a lot of missings and a lot of folding that it's an automatic win for your c-bets. The numbers of limpers I raise doesn't matter because I have to win only 1 out of the # of limpers to break even.

It's not the 50's in the southwest anymore.

Well, the way I explain it is the way to make money. No matter how you slice it and trying to make it a little fancy in the modern poker it doesn't matter. Doesn't add dollars but maybe some pennies that don't even covers the valet parking.

The NL poker truth is this:
When you raise pre, say $15 and get 3 callers from the limpers. The pot is $60.

When your opponents miss the flop and you bet $50, they fold. When your opponents flop bottom pair and you bet $50, they might fold or call. But if they call, when they don’t improve on the turn and you bet $150, they fold. The same logic holds for middle pairs and unimproved pocket pairs or the TP with weak kicker — most hands weaker than top pair good kicker that also don’t have flush or straight draws to keep your opponents in the hand. They may call a flop bet. But if you keep firing and they don’t improve, they’ll fold. So, you make money.

You create “something” from “nothing” and keep doing it over and over. Sometime you flop good or a nut monster and win lots of chips. Sometime they hit the flop with monsters but you don’t pay people off because the limp+callers will make big bets on the turn or river when they have a big hand ONLY.

I repeat his one more time and this is not negotiable:

Not even the best player in the world like Gus Hansen, Phil Hellmuth, Tom Dwan or I don't know, say Doyle Brunson, Todd Brunson the heavy hitters players like Daniel Negreanu .., Antonio Esfandiari .., and not even Mason Malmuth or David Sklansky etc .. or the last WSOP champ .., will never win if they will limp and call instead of raising the limpers or UTG or anywhere when the 1st one in. They will never win not even in a 1-2 game at The Venetian. They will all for sure lose unless they get lucky.

Just put David Sklansky or even Ed Miller in a 1-2 NL $200 effective and have them only limp or call. I am 100% sure they will lose by the end of the night unless they get big time lucky.

You don't have to take my word for, just ask them if they can beat the 1-2 game by limping and then calling if a player raises in the back. Or by just limping along with all the fish and looking to hit the flop. Just ask them. See if I'm right or wrong.

Whoa settle down buddy your putting words in my mouth.

You can put all those super skilled player in any game with any blinds structure and have them only limp along or call a raise after they limped. Unless they flop big they cannot beat any game being 1-2 or 100-200 NL. Makes no difference because limp and calling will eat you alive.

As mentioned, l/rr is bad, sizing is bad. You need to reassess what your goal is when you Vp$ip. Do you want to get called by worse, fold out better or realize your equity? Your current line and sizing doesn't really achieve any of those.

AP, if villain is really that good, he is likely not calling 40% of effective stacks with a hand that you had beat in the first place. If he isn't that good, he almost certainly outflopped you now. Easy fold.

whata troll

I kinda feel bad if this is a legitimate hand and thread but..........OPs trolling us right?

piss poor play pre flop, easiest fold in my life on the flop

There's a time and place to limp, this is not one of them. Sizing is ******ed, make it more like $45 or just jam if you insist on making it huge.

AP, I guess I fold flop.

BTW JJ is better than 97%+ of all other hands, if it plays "very poorly" postflop, what plays "very well" - only AA?

Results:

He doesn’t sound like such a shark... Though nobody really is.

Very weak play. Very very weak. You need to do some work to improve your understanding of this game and I suggest to change your mentality of how to approach this game in the first place. When you limp 1st in the pot with JJ what would have been your play if villain limped behind $2? -Now the pot is about $10 with all the other weak limpers. What would have been your flop play with your limped JJ on that A, Q, 8 flop? - If you check and he bets you got to fold. If you bet and he raises you got to fold. Or if you limp with JJ for set mining you'll not gonna last long in this game. See now why I'm saying that your play was very weak? -

I'm not criticizing you personally. I'm just commenting as a poker play with a premium hand like JJ and the action any weak player including that what you call "Fish calls $2" would do by limping. I hope you understand but I doubt it. And by the way: Why you call him a "Fish"? - ........, because he limped like you did for $2?

Anyway, Good Luck because you'll need plenty of it

Sharks don't play 1/2.

Based on this HH, my guess is that V is losing fish.

Why is he insisting that you show your hand? He went all-in, and you called. He is first to show. This entire hand is a giant **** show.

All of them are fish. The entire hand is submerged in a fish tank. There's no question about that. Very very transparent. I can see very clear that all are fish like all the other fish here at the Commerce in LA or all over Vegas and Atlantic City. This game will never die because we have an endless supply of fresh players that learned NL Hold'em by searching Google and watching YouTube poker videos.