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1/2 pair+fd facing flop raise 1/2 pair+fd facing flop raise

04-18-2014 , 03:32 AM
1/2 $ 300 max buy-in

Hero: mid 20's white male. My image is pretty LAG tonight, which is just coincidental because I'm being very talkative and have gotten a string of good cards. I don't believe villain saw any major hands I was in as my hot streak has dried, but I'm still getting my share of hands, just not going past the flop. Stack $750

Villain: mid 20's asian male. Been at the table a little under an hour, and he's immediately to my left. He's been very quiet and very tight. He's limped once or twice, but not much, and hasn't opened a pot yet. He's either very card dead or has strong will. Stack $280

As the cards are being dealt, villain opens to 12 from UTG. Before the action can continue, the dealer calls "miss deal" because of some **** or another, and as everyone is mucking villain shows me AK after I say "Man, you finally played a hand!"

On to the real hand!

Villain in UTG opens for 12 again, to which the table comments and laughs, HJ calls, BTN calls, and Hero calls in BB with 56

Flop: Q64 (pot ~$50)

Hero bets 35, Villain takes 5 sec before pushing a stack out for a raise to 100, folds back to hero...?
1/2 pair+fd facing flop raise Quote
04-18-2014 , 08:29 AM
You have too much equity here to fold and villain's stack size makes flatting bad, so shove. Expect to be behind a big pair here a lot. Your not getting the equity you need against QQ but your OK against any other hand. Even against a range of QQ+ you have enough equity, any chance of other hands just makes your situation better.

I think the flop donk bet was a mistake here. With no information on how villain plays post flop I would rather check and see what villain does. If he bets big hero can just fold because your draw is good but not a monster, your OOP and SPR is low.
1/2 pair+fd facing flop raise Quote
04-18-2014 , 09:30 AM
I hate calling with SCs out of the blinds. I probably call on the button, but fold in the BB. You really want position with these hands, and it's kind of demonstrated here. I am looking to get it in on this board though. I think a nice check raise all in should get the job done.
1/2 pair+fd facing flop raise Quote
04-18-2014 , 09:46 AM
As played, you pretty much have to shove. You are basically coin flipping with a slight disadvantage if he has AA/KK with one spade or AQ with As. If he has AsKs or AxQ or red AA/KK, you are basically coin flipping with a slight edge. If he has QQ you are obviously way behind. Given V's description and the action, that is pretty much his range.

I think the crux is, if you could after the flop action to this point go back and fold pre, you probably would. Given V's nittyness and us being OOP and relative undeepness of stacks, I think the flop call is pretty bad.
1/2 pair+fd facing flop raise Quote
04-18-2014 , 02:52 PM
Don't listen to the haters. As long as you jammed over the raise, there are no big problems with this hand.
1/2 pair+fd facing flop raise Quote
04-18-2014 , 03:06 PM
As played, think this is a standard AI. You are a fav vs. an over pair, outs vs. a set.

Pre - I'd likely fold. Though we are getting 4-1 pot odds to call, effective stack size is borderline to call scs oop. Tight original raiser may not pay off.
1/2 pair+fd facing flop raise Quote
04-18-2014 , 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadJ
I think the flop donk bet was a mistake here. With no information on how villain plays post flop I would rather check and see what villain does. If he bets big hero can just fold because your draw is good but not a monster, your OOP and SPR is low.
So you would check/fold if he bet $40 or around pot? Or are you saying if he overbet you would release?
1/2 pair+fd facing flop raise Quote
04-18-2014 , 04:12 PM
$40 is probably where I fold more then anything else but hero's draw is good enough that I would shove if I think I have enough FE. Smaller bets I might fold, call or shove It's a very situational thing because it depends on villain's likely turn play and how much FE hero has if you shove and how many non-flush cards can help hero's hand. Big bets are generally not c-bets with air here and a shove over a big bet may or may not have enough FE.

This is really the problem with playing suited connectors OOP with a low SPR. Too often you get these good but not monster draws, where you are usually a little less then 50/50. You don't want to just flat call because villains may find a fold on the turn if the flush comes in and is likely to bet too much for hero call if it doesn't. That leaves you stuck between check/folding and check/shoving unless villain gives you good pot odds. The shove is -EV unless you get some folds when you shove, and the possible flush draw is obvious, however you don't need a lot of folds before it's +EV.
1/2 pair+fd facing flop raise Quote
04-18-2014 , 04:26 PM
We have a pair and a flush draw. Against an overpair, we are basically flipping--a little more than 50/50 if the overpair has no spade, a little less if it does have one.

As long as we are heads-up, it can never be too bad to get stacks in on the flop here. The only hand we don't want to see is a set.
1/2 pair+fd facing flop raise Quote
04-18-2014 , 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadJ
$40 is probably where I fold more then anything else but hero's draw is good enough that I would shove if I think I have enough FE. Smaller bets I might fold, call or shove It's a very situational thing because it depends on villain's likely turn play and how much FE hero has if you shove and how many non-flush cards can help hero's hand. Big bets are generally not c-bets with air here and a shove over a big bet may or may not have enough FE.

This is really the problem with playing suited connectors OOP with a low SPR. Too often you get these good but not monster draws, where you are usually a little less then 50/50. You don't want to just flat call because villains may find a fold on the turn if the flush comes in and is likely to bet too much for hero call if it doesn't. That leaves you stuck between check/folding and check/shoving unless villain gives you good pot odds. The shove is -EV unless you get some folds when you shove, and the possible flush draw is obvious, however you don't need a lot of folds before it's +EV.
If you're folding 65ss on this board to a PSB then lol @ you and fold pre.

Preflop is borderline but I think a call is ok given the pot odds. Not a fan of the donk bet, I'd rather c/r. You're rarely going to get 3 folds from donking, and if you getting flatted and brick the turn you're in an odd spot. You either have to bet and and possibly commit yourself after your huge drawing hand loses half it's equity, or check and pray villain either check behind or bets small enough to give you odds.

As played I'm jamming. We probably have little FE but unless villains range is only sets, this is a fine spot to get it in.
1/2 pair+fd facing flop raise Quote
04-18-2014 , 05:46 PM
this is more than just sets, it's at least AA/KK/AK also. This is the flop you were dreaming of when you called pre (I'm in the fold pre camp). Get it in now.
1/2 pair+fd facing flop raise Quote
04-18-2014 , 06:27 PM
If villain is actually as tight as we think, then I must lol @ thinking he never folds. He only calls with QQ 100% of the time, and probably finds a fold with AQ, AsKs, KK+ some small % of the time.

Regardless, given stack sizes our shove is +EV even if he never folds.
1/2 pair+fd facing flop raise Quote
04-18-2014 , 07:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CallMeVernon
Don't listen to the haters. As long as you jammed over the raise, there are no big problems with this hand.
this. shove it in and expect to win about half of the time,

as for comments that critique your play preflop, yes, your overall longterm EV for your hand versus an overpair is negative, but it basically is a non-issue now that you are at this point in the hand.
1/2 pair+fd facing flop raise Quote

      
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