If we're going to 3! I think it should be bigger. 30-40$

Boards with at least one wheel card or one diamond, boards that don't have two broadways and two cards 7-J and are two-toned and have all three cards spaced so that there's straight draws all over the place. The K is nice, but repping AK is gonna take a couple barrels.

Betting's probably +EV just because of all the PPs that are out there, but those are going to x/f three streets anyway. We might as well stab later after he's weakened his range with a meaningful check, which credibly reps QQ/JJ.

Check. This board requires a a barrel too often to get a fold, and we aren't drawing to anything other than a pair.

hand is fine to squeeze, would be making it larger though, 30-35 would be fine.

flop is 100% a check, then a delay or double delay cbet bluff if given the chance.

This is really bad all around. All you need to do is close the action pre with a call and take a flop with a hand that wants to see flops for as cheaply as possible when it has the opportunity to do so. Had UTG made a legitimate raise, you can consider all 3 options in a soft game.
Also, you shouldn't go out of your way to find a non-linear squeezing range in the games you play.

AP easiest ck back in the world.

Mid SCs are better for a few reasons. They don't play as well in multi-way pots because they make baby flushes and baby two pairs and baby trips and their single pairs are tougher to play OOP than an A. They also play better for range coverage in our aggressor range because it's harder to have cards like 7s and 8s as the 3ber than it is Ax (and the wheel cards are all effective blanks, which makes them by default better for the uncapped player). They're also more playable for barreling on a wider range of boards HU, whereas again, Axs has more multiway playability.

Also, blocker effects were all the rage in like pre-Black Friday online games when you could 3b really polar ranges to exploit TAG regs who had a lot of 4b-or-fold heavy strategies, but now it's all about postflop playability (which it always should have been live).

Also, the small sizing should make you lean toward flatting more often as you're getting a better price on your call and not getting as good of a score on a squeeze.

Finally, I do agree you don't need to try to be polar in these games too much, but if this is the first time you've ever mixed in a squeeze with a suited wheel, then it's totally fine. You're in the right ballpark of hands to be choosing from, so just don't go nuts with your frequencies (and you really don't need to dip into the low pole very often at all against an UTG open), and you'll be fine.

Yeah that’s what’s bothering me. That I have to put in a lot of money to try getting him off those hands.

What if V decides to bluff turn himself after we show weakness by not cbetting flop?

Thank you. Very well explained.

Why do these pros talk about putting in suited wheel aces in light 3bet ranges all the time though?

Then you fold ace high?

I think if you're thinking about 3betting pre, you have to follow through at least one street of c-betting. Probably two. Not doing so is just lighting money on fire with no plan. But what if he 4bets pre?

I think the bigger problem, even 5 handed, is that this is a 1/2 game, with no pros and very little beyond level 0 thinking. You invested $23 to get a guy who raised the pot to $5 to fold. And it didn't work. How much more are you going to shovel into the pot before you realize that this is a BAD plan at 1/2 and/or realize that if he called $25, that he's likely not just a flop monkey and will probably keep calling.

The problem with pros that talk about 3betting hands like A3suited is that those games are way over the rim that is your normal 1/2 game. Just because you love Doug Polk (or any other poker pro) doesn't mean you should be doing everything he does at his level because he plays at 100x the stakes we do.

I think there's just too many reasons that are bad to 3bet A3suited in the lowest game a casino offers. If you to invest $3 and see a flop, that's one thing. Mimicing pros is a dangerous game when the skill level is WAY lower.

Going ahead in the hand guys:

UTG opens to $5 ,
BTN flats,
SB calls,
Hero raises to $25 with A3, only SB calls.

FLOP ($60): K T 8
SB checks, Hero bets $28, SB calls

TURN ($116): T
SB checks, Hero ?

Ck and consider calling brick rivers.

The short answer is that there are hundreds of permutations of squeeze spots (position of OR, our position, how many callers, where the fish are on the table, reads on OR, open size, etc) and suited wheel aces are in the class of hands that are always in discussion for at least mixing in 3bs. With us closing the action, it being 4-way, the OR's range being strong, the small sizing, us getting nut relative position, this being lol1/2, this wouldn't necessarily be a spot where 3bing comes out ahead of other options. These pros might have been talking about other spots where the factors you mentioned take precedence.

I'd also guess theory and practice diverge to a large degree here. Live games operate around the fish who are generally abundant at each table. If a GTO bot opens a fish calls, we're to act in the CO, and we've got a couple of fish left behind us, our actions are gonna have a lot to do with what's best against the cold calling fish and the fish left to act. As such, I end up flatting low suited aces a lot just because getting a cheap price to potentially cooler fish with the nut flush is juicy in a way that it shouldn't be in theory.

Similarly, I think even solid TAGs both fold and 4b less than the GTO bot does, so the blockers vs playability tradeoff weighs even heavier in favor of playability. I'm sure there are several other more subtle factors, like GTO bots cbet <50% of the time often for very small sizes, whereas live TAGs routinely cbet 60%+ always for 2/3p+, so you don't get to see the fourth card as much (which favors middle coordinated cards) and would prefer to just smash the flop with NFD or toppest pair.

There's also a non-zero chance I'm wrong (my 3b ranges are evolving all the time). And there's a non-zero chance that these pros are wrong.

great turn for you. ship it. $147 into a $116 pot, never getting called by FD/SD, and unlikely to get called by Kx, QQ, JJ. If he has Tx, well you were unlucky. You easily have enough FE, and you even have 3 outs vs Kx calls.

Or just: For balance we don't really need. Good post tho.

V was willing to just call the $5 before you squeezed for $25, that screams 55-TT with maybe an AQ-AJo. Anything else likely raises folds pre. I'd be fine cbetting 35-45 and if called, done.

I would be $40 on flop but I would also just flat preflop

Time to give up, but if you bet there is only one size

Agree on this. Only other comment I would add is u r only 100 bbs deep. Since u will miss most flops and likely c-betting, u wind-up investing 1/3 - 2/5 of your stack with A-high.

Squeezing in this spot is a bluff, meaning you need to have fold equity. At 1/2, I'm not sure how much fold equity you actually have, and I'm hesitant to squeeze without a read knowing that the average 1/2 population tends to be too call-y. that said, I don't mind a double barrel on this particular board, though checking wouldn't be too bad either given that you completely whiffed. You can get a lot of value from straight draws like QJ, J9, q9, 67, and all the flush draws. I'd double barrel certain run-outs and then consider calling the river with ace high since villains at this level rarely bet thin for value, and will oftentimes even check back a top pair medium kicker hand like Kj on the river.

Generally light 3! OOP at 1/2 are an abortion.

Glad there's no sour feelings from the AQo in SB against a whale HH

That sounded like my thread https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/1...ofish-1694743/ but realized I was wrong, lol

Everyone that wants to cbet needs to read this response like 100 times or whatever it takes. When the 3 flop cards come out, this is exactly how you should be thinking. I don’t know what else to say other than play more plo bc you learn real quick how to think like what tenhigh said above.