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1/2 Optimal turn line with boat 1/2 Optimal turn line with boat

06-07-2013 , 12:55 PM
Was discussing this hand with a friend who was in the game with me and am unsure of the best turn line to take.

Villain - bought in for $250, probably in his mid 20s, played tight, through table conversation found out he used to play online a decent bit pre BF. I've been staying out of his way when he has shown aggression, he is sitting on my direct left.

Hero - has about $400ish, started out playing pretty LAG, but at this point was playing TAG, trying to get in good value spots vs some of the weaker players.

2 weaker players limp in, I raise to $10 with KJo, Villain calls, the rest of the table folds, the two weaker players both call.

Flop ($43) AKJ
Weak players both check, I bet $25, villain calls $25, two weak players fold, Villain says "good luck" as the dealer pulls in the flop bets.

Turn ($93) AKJJ
Hero bets $55, Villain looks a little uneasy and after about 45 seconds or so pushes out a raise to $110. He has between $110-130 behind.

What is our best line here? Is everything ok up to this point? I would've liked to see myself bet around $30 on the flop.
1/2 Optimal turn line with boat Quote
06-07-2013 , 01:05 PM
ya, i'd go larger pre to avoid this going very multiway, and larger otf as well.

I'd probably just shove now to avoid a bad card coming otr that could kill the action. usually when an opponent raises with so little behind, it is a very strong action and they are rarely planning on folding
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06-07-2013 , 01:07 PM
bet closer to a psb otf, bet bigger ott

as played just shove over his turn raise, he isn't folding anything here with only that much behind, but if you call and villain perceives the river as scary he may check back, thus you lose value from Q10, QJ, J10...
1/2 Optimal turn line with boat Quote
06-07-2013 , 01:21 PM
As played its a clear shove. Anything else is a mistake imo
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06-07-2013 , 02:14 PM
Any merits to clicking it back instead of shoving?
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06-07-2013 , 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius187
Any merits to clicking it back instead of shoving?
Gonna go out on a limb here and say that villain may have been sitting with a boat thinking exactly this on the turn when he makes it $110.
1/2 Optimal turn line with boat Quote
06-07-2013 , 02:37 PM
grunch: bet more pre and on flop. Otherwise ship it in. This is what you want.
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06-07-2013 , 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius187
Any merits to clicking it back instead of shoving?
Not really, both rep a pretty similar hand range
1/2 Optimal turn line with boat Quote
06-07-2013 , 02:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by derada4
Gonna go out on a limb here and say that villain may have been sitting with a boat thinking exactly this on the turn when he makes it $110.
In order for that to happen, he would have had to flat AA,KK,JJ preflop and there's no way he wuoldhave done that knowing there were callers behind. AJ/KJ are the only hands that makes sense with what you're saying and I'll take that chance. Much more likely he flatted with AK or with QT. They both make lots of sense for his actions.
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06-07-2013 , 02:44 PM
he can't have jj either
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06-07-2013 , 02:48 PM
Right. My bad. Meant to switch JJ to AJ but alas I failed.
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06-07-2013 , 02:50 PM
With 4 players I really don't think he is flatting you with KK or AA preflop with 2 players to act, so really the only hand you are worried about is AJ. He has AK and QT in his range here a lot and has basically pot committed himself with the min-raise. I don't see any other option than shoving here. If you get coolered, then its just really bad luck with the cards.
1/2 Optimal turn line with boat Quote
06-07-2013 , 03:17 PM
Only hand that he beats me with realistically is AJ, if he has it, good for him. In game I shoved and he folded AK. My friend says I missed value and should've clicked back to him to force him to call another $55 and then only have $70 left on the river which he'd be pretty committed to stick in. I thought he'd be happy enough to play for stacks after making it $110 on the turn.
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06-07-2013 , 03:26 PM
If you min raise there, he probably still folds, since he should expect you to ship on the river no matter what hits with his stack being $60 more. Even if you flat there, he is definitely slowing down on the river and probably doesn't call any value bet unless you made it like $20. You didn't lose much value there.

I'm suprised he didn't raise on the flop with a flush and straight draw out there. Most people would have been playing for stacks on the flop.
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06-07-2013 , 03:30 PM
I think minraising here actually looks scarier than the jam because it announces that you don't give a **** about the draws. Bet slightly larger preflop and on the flop, turn is played fine.
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