The smaller flop bets can make turns and rivers easier. It's not a bad thing that you are making V continue with a wide, weaker range.

But they will continue with that range at half pot and full pot size bets as well. So what is the purpose of 1/3rd pot bets other then blocking so you can catch up when behind. But that almost never works because drooler live players see any bet less then the initial amount of the 3b as weak and they are very likely to raise you with 1pair type hands, not air but hands that beat you.


So if you're going to make a 1/3rd type bet it should be when you have the board locked down and you're praying for spaz.

If people are calling bottom pair, ace-high and overcards for full pot then keep doing that. In that case, sure there's no benefit to betting small and you can exploit opponents with large flop bets and frequent barreling.

If you are betting 1/3rd pot and getting raised by all 1 pair hands, that's really good. You can easily fold your air correctly, and when you do have top pair+ you get to the turn with a large pot against a range that has a lot of weaker hands.

I don't get why "my opponents suck so much that they will do something very exploitable" is a bad thing

Hence why I said save the 1/3 pot bets for when you can value own them. Not when you have ace high and you are shoveling in money "because you're supposed to". Because you will get raised so often, then you're throwing good money after bad..... with ace high.....

First we can't 1/3x because it's so small it's going to induce something, now we can't 1/3x because it's 'shoveling in money.'

The point of the sizing is that you use it with your whole range on a bunch of boards. You get a good price on your cbets and, if you're so inclined, 3! pre, 1/3x flop, 1/2x turn, 1.2x river gets ~120BB in.

Also again this is a fire once and give up flop. OP just decided he was gonna 3bet and downbet and barrel because.. I dunno. Reasons.

Adding 1/3 pot cbets in 3bet pots (and sometimes even in single raised pots) into my game has actually done wonders for my winrate. On most drier boards it has probably become my default sizing and I find that people are definitely not auto-calling, let alone auto-raising. Yes, they're calling more flops than they used to - because they feel they have to - but they're still folding a lot of turns, certainly more than they used to, especially if I up the sizing. And if I use a smaller sizing on the flop, I can barrel more turns without immediately having to play for my whole stack. On the whole, I think it gets me both more value in general and more FE on the turn when I need it. Of course it doesn't always work out great, and you still have to adapt to all kinds of scenarios and villains, but saying that you should never cbet smaller than half pot or whatever is just nonsense. It's not 2008 anymore, the game has evolved.

The shoveling money part is for when you get raised because you induced and now you have to put in MORE money with ace high and play into a bloated pot out of position and now without initiative. That is my reason for saying it may be best to save those 1/3x c-bets for when you can let someone value own themselves.

Maybe all of your games are different, but c-bets mean next to nothing at the live games I play at. And most villains wont adapt or even notice that you have larger hands when you choose to do certain actions. So in most situations it would be better to chk/call for pot control, or check fold your missed hands, bet your smashed hands big or use 1/3x to induce. It is like trying to continue with a lot of your range with 1/3x at live 1/2-1/3 puts you out in no mans land. In most games at least.

Is this online or live? Not being a dick, just curious.

I would 1/2 pot c-bet and then fold to a raise. C/f is fine if you don't think he'll stab with his air and semi-bluffs, otherwise suboptimal imo.

Live.