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AQs in LJ, facing utg raise and MP short stack 3bet

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05-09-2019 , 01:15 AM

Phraust

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 349

Hero 1/2 live 750$

Hero has been running hot. So not sure on my image. As soon as I sat down a couple hours before this hand the table said I got the hot seat. The guy who got up left as a big winner. So they arent surprised I've been raising a good amount of hands. Been showing mostly premiums at showdown too.

UTG has 400$ behind. UTG seems kind of nitty. Plays a lot of hands but folds a lot. Got him off a couple hands with bluffs where he showed me what he was folding. MP has 65$, bought in for 80$.

Hero dealt AQdd in LJ

Utg raise to 10$, MP 3bet to 25$, hero?

Last edited by Phraust; 05-09-2019 at 01:44 AM.

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05-09-2019 , 01:40 AM

DumbosTrunk

Verified Coach PLO5

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 7,326

UTG open from nitty player and short stack's 3! of that player is super strong. Easy fold. AQs is the probably the hand I most frequently throw away to 3!s in general. Even if shorty somehow has TT-JJ (highly unlikely), you're not exactly crushing him and you still have to worry about UTG coming over the top behind you.

I would probably throw away AK here too btw and just cold 4! with QQ+ and hope to GII against the shorty and evaluate based on what UTG does.

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05-09-2019 , 01:41 AM

NittyOldMan1

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,452

fold

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05-09-2019 , 01:48 AM

Phraust

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 349

If we are folding, what hands are we ever 4betting here with?

Doesn't feel like we should ever call anything in this spot so everything is probably a 4bet or fold.

So is our 4bet range only QQ+?

How would we play something like TT or JJ in this spot?

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05-09-2019 , 10:51 AM

weiskoda

centurion

Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 199

Quote:

Originally Posted by DumbosTrunk

But UTG is described as "Plays a lot of hands but folds a lot" - Why not raise to exactly $65 with goal to get UTG to fold (he folds a lot) and HU with short stack? AQ suited plays well against a typical short stack who can be fairly wide and we can see all five cards (we have no info on short stack). If UTG re-pops it, which is unlikely, we fold. If UTG calls, depending on flop, we should c-bet fairly frequently here since UTG folds a lot.

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05-09-2019 , 01:17 PM

DumbosTrunk

Verified Coach PLO5

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 7,326

"Plays a lot of hands but folds a lot" doesn't tell us whether he's raising a lot or limping a lot pre. I just went with OP's "nitty" and assumed he didn't raise a whole lot.

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05-09-2019 , 01:37 PM

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,775

UTG is nitty and plays a lot of hands, but what does he raise with, especially UTG?

I love AQs, but I let this go -- unless UTG is raising a lot of hands, which probably means he's not really nitty. Around and around we go.

I actually might just flat, too. Let UTG 4bet if he has it (and just fold, obviously) and play a hand in position against him if he flats behind -- especially if you can bluff him.

FWIW, I am not 4betting. Nitty player will (should) 4bet shorty with a premium and flat everything else whether we come along or not, but especially if we flat. He's rarely 4betting as a bluff (non-premium) if we flat.

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05-09-2019 , 01:58 PM

Amanaplan

acanalpanamA

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 5,628

Easiest call in the world IP and deep. He probably won't 4bet without AA so you should see a flop. Call even faster if MP is a spot.

By the way, if you think a 'hot seat' exists, go home pre and never return. Unless your house is haunted, in which case maybe stay, especially if it's a full moon and you're a Capricorn.

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05-09-2019 , 02:09 PM

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,775

Of course, flatting depends on players behind, but it seems as if we are not worried about them?

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05-09-2019 , 02:19 PM

#10

Amanaplan

acanalpanamA

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 5,628

Quote:

Originally Posted by Javanewt

Of course, flatting depends on players behind, but it seems as if we are not worried about them?

750eff I am folding never. How often are pots being 4bet anyway when you have an Ace in your hand. It's a money making spot with enough equity to call immediately anyway - live players just are always wide until proven otherwise. Not like we're stacking off on Axx.

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05-09-2019 , 02:40 PM

#11

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,775

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amanaplan

Good point. If we have a wide 4bettor behind us, we should be even happier to flat and see what UTG does. If there are any other shorties who might shove for more, I guess again we see what UTG does, but I'm less thrilled if UTG flats a shorty shove and now we have a bloated pot. If we were against an UTG nit like GG, he could easily have AK or KK. (I think even GG would raise/gii with AA, but you never know.)

Yep, I like the flat.

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05-09-2019 , 08:06 PM

#12

Phraust

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 349

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amanaplan

The table said I had a hot seat. So I'm just saying it could maybe affect my image with the amount I've been raising. I never switch seats when card dead or anything.

Anyways I actually ended up 4betting to 65$ to put the short stack all in. I thought isolating him would be the better move. I figure if we flat then this gives utg a lot of hands to 4bet. We are pretty capped if we flat. If utg shoves we can just fold and if he calls we are IP with a good hand.

Utg ends up shoving. MP calls. Hero folds.

9 high run out. Utg shows AKo for ace high and MP mucks

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05-09-2019 , 08:34 PM

#13

metsandfinsfan

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 158,880

Quote:

Originally Posted by weiskoda

yeah my thought was raise to 100 cause raise to 65 looks weird

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05-09-2019 , 08:39 PM

#14

Ray Zee

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 17,920

of course its a fold. even if you hit one of your cards you cant go for an all in in this hand.

its a sucker hand in this particular spot.

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05-09-2019 , 09:35 PM

#15

KID777777

adept

Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 869

It's 400eff, are you still flatting amana

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05-09-2019 , 09:45 PM

#16

Havick

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 395

It was a good fold.

Never worried about the short stack, but if utg comes along or reraises, I don't think we could be super comfortable with an A high flop.

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05-09-2019 , 11:55 PM

#17

Amanaplan

acanalpanamA

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 5,628

Quote:

Originally Posted by KID777777

It's 400eff, are you still flatting amana

400 and 65 eff not 750, yea, never made it through that, but guess what, some ‘seems kinda nitty’ guy is actually an idiot that just 5b jammed 400 w AK probably not as a bluff either. I am Folding never against players against whom I have no respect. We had MP beat/tied pre as well. Everyone sucks - call 25 and see a flop often. Maneuver against so called nit postflop and win money.

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05-10-2019 , 12:09 AM

#18

Amanaplan

acanalpanamA

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 5,628

And in 2019 there are no ‘sucker hands’ only ranges v ranges. That’s ancient thinking and it no longer applies. If we want to assign an airtight 2% open range to some guy because he vpiped under the gun then fine, fold, esp when action remains open, but that ain’t poker that’s dodging ghosts.

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05-10-2019 , 11:40 AM

#19

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,775

Quote:

Originally Posted by KID777777

It's 400eff, are you still flatting amana

Do you mean, "If it's 400eff, are you still flatting amana"? Because this hand is 200eff.

I'm with Amanaplan on the flat. If UTG 4bets, folding is fine. If he flats, play some poker. We have position against a nitty guy who will fold to pressure. (We probably could have bet him off his AK if he had flatted the 3bet.)

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05-10-2019 , 01:10 PM

#20

aisrael01

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 415

I think your question is hard to answer absent sizing reads -- is 10 dollars weak or strong open for this player?

In my game a lot of tight players will limp RR AA and KK so his UTG opening range is possibly less value heavy than we may think. In games I play a 10 dollar open is considered small and typically represents a weaker hand like a suited Broadway or medium pp.

Considering that, I would raise to 80 to ISO the short stack.

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05-10-2019 , 01:35 PM

#21

aisrael01

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 415

I also think a flat is fine. The only mistake you could make is to fold to the initial action. Obviously fold after UTG comes over the top.

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