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<img / NLHE Live - Flopped the King High Flush <img / NLHE Live - Flopped the King High Flush

12-23-2017 , 09:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by osirus0830
It's a fold. Look at the Doug Polk video where he flopped set over set vs Jason Koon. Koon is able to get away on the river based on manipulating Doug by betting pot and having Doug still raise him. Your sizing on the flop should allow you to get away. You bet pot, and got raised on. That's an extremely polarized line. Since the average 1/2 player is never bluffing in that spot, it means he has the nuts. Fold to the raise imo.
At this stack depth, I can see a PSB being raised by lower flushes too to protect though.
<img / NLHE Live - Flopped the King High Flush Quote
12-23-2017 , 10:52 PM
What a cooler.. Results please ?
<img / NLHE Live - Flopped the King High Flush Quote
12-23-2017 , 11:13 PM
Small Blind: JJ

Big Blind: A8

Big Blind flopped me dead LOL 😂
<img / NLHE Live - Flopped the King High Flush Quote
12-25-2017 , 06:28 PM
We flop a flush less than once every hundred times we try.

The poker gods mess with us now and then.

Sometimes longer than seems necessary.

To paraphrase a beer commercial, "Stay humble, my friend."
<img / NLHE Live - Flopped the King High Flush Quote
12-26-2017 , 01:13 PM
A better question would be “what I’d the lowest flush that you stack with these stack depths?”.
<img / NLHE Live - Flopped the King High Flush Quote
12-26-2017 , 01:23 PM
So u said everyone was "at least 100 bb deep". Did I miss where you told us how deep you are? There are timers when you COULD fold a King high flush on that flop, but I would say you would probably need to be 400+ blinds deep and probably only after you have been 4-bet (so you lead, get raised, you 3-bet and then V shoves). Below that stack depth, especially at 1/2 without a very specific read, you just have to go broke or you will give up way too much value the times you are ahead (which IME is somewhere around 60-65%).
<img / NLHE Live - Flopped the King High Flush Quote
12-26-2017 , 02:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adam levine
A better question would be “what I’d the lowest flush that you stack with these stack depths?”.
Queen high probably goes in, jack high probably folds. With the those two hands what the low card is matters a bit because it influences how many preflop calling hands are possible. QJs blocks a good number of the limp/call hands, Q-rag not as much. That matters less for king high because there are so many ace-rag that blockers don't matter as much.

That is given the specific action, villains and stack sizes. In particular the deeper stacks get the less likely weaker hands jam the flop. That makes made good flopped flushes and nut draws more likely for both villains. So the deeper the situation the faster the less then nut made hands drop off in value.
<img / NLHE Live - Flopped the King High Flush Quote
12-26-2017 , 04:00 PM
LSD, What are you trying accomplish by entering the pot with a raise to $10 preflop? Why are you betting full pot on the flop?
<img / NLHE Live - Flopped the King High Flush Quote
12-26-2017 , 09:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStrumps
With 3 limpers I like your PFR if it was meant to be a pot sweetener. I would make it $6. Post flop anyway you play it, you can not escape your destiny.
There's no such thing as a pot sweetener. You're either raising for value because you expect worse hands to pay you off or you're bluffing to make better hands fold. By your logic you should just minraise every hand to "sweeten the pot".
<img / NLHE Live - Flopped the King High Flush Quote
12-26-2017 , 10:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtm1208
LSD, What are you trying accomplish by entering the pot with a raise to $10 preflop? Why are you betting full pot on the flop?
Can you tell why you shouldn't pot this?

There are times you'll want to raise to protect from a flush, like you won't always have a flush in these spots. Those moments you'll want to pot it right?
<img / NLHE Live - Flopped the King High Flush Quote
12-28-2017 , 02:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calldown88
Can you tell why you shouldn't pot this?

There are times you'll want to raise to protect from a flush, like you won't always have a flush in these spots. Those moments you'll want to pot it right?
You shouldnt think of it as "protecting" from a flush. If you bet $200 into a $60 pot you'd be thrilled that he called. You dont mind someone calling as long as theyre getting bad odds to do so. The question becomes just how badly are they willing to call? Then size your bet based upon that. Lets say villain turned his hand over and exposed a nut flush draw and swore on his wife and kids that he will not call anything more than $10 and you believed him, how much would you bet? Hopefully no more than $10, because while he's not making a mistake in calling, he's still "winning less" than you in the long run so you have to bet. It's never for protection, it's for value.

The only times you would consider a particular bet for "protection" is just because you know you will play the hand poorly if they call. For instance if everyone limps to you in the BB and you decide to minraise to $4 with AK. You stand a pretty decent chance of losing this hand vs 8 players out of position. In that case while you are raising for value, you really dont mind getting a bunch of folds because it's the only way for you to play effectively vs the field.
<img / NLHE Live - Flopped the King High Flush Quote
12-28-2017 , 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by javi
You shouldnt think of it as "protecting" from a flush. If you bet $200 into a $60 pot you'd be thrilled that he called. You dont mind someone calling as long as theyre getting bad odds to do so. The question becomes just how badly are they willing to call? Then size your bet based upon that. Lets say villain turned his hand over and exposed a nut flush draw and swore on his wife and kids that he will not call anything more than $10 and you believed him, how much would you bet? Hopefully no more than $10, because while he's not making a mistake in calling, he's still "winning less" than you in the long run so you have to bet. It's never for protection, it's for value.

The only times you would consider a particular bet for "protection" is just because you know you will play the hand poorly if they call. For instance if everyone limps to you in the BB and you decide to minraise to $4 with AK. You stand a pretty decent chance of losing this hand vs 8 players out of position. In that case while you are raising for value, you really dont mind getting a bunch of folds because it's the only way for you to play effectively vs the field.
If he has the nut flush draw and you bet $10 you are giving him a gift man. You are literally losing money when you bet $10 and he calls, it's better than checking but it's still a losing play.

Of course it's for value. Any bet for protection is also a bet for value. I'm never concerned about myself "playing poorly on later streets" I'm concerned about likely having the best hand, but having it be very vulnerable.

When you bet pot you're giving him 2:1 (33% needed to call) but he only has around 20%. Based on implied odds he should consider calling. He gets 3:1 if someone calls ahead of him and he holds the nut flush draw, and he should definitely call then. The problem comes up at 1/2 with players viewing money as only being in its "dollar value" and don't know what pot odds are.
<img / NLHE Live - Flopped the King High Flush Quote
12-28-2017 , 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calldown88
Any bet for protection is also a bet for value.
Not if your bet is sized with the sole intention of making your opponent fold a worse hand, which is what a lot of live players do.
<img / NLHE Live - Flopped the King High Flush Quote

      
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