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1-2 NLHE - AA gets reraised OTT 1-2 NLHE - AA gets reraised OTT

01-21-2014 , 02:21 AM
Villain is a loose aggressive, thinking player.
The table views me as tight.

Stacks:
Hero: $550
Villain: $344

Preflop: (10 handed)
Hero is dealt AA UTG+1
Villain is in the HJ

UTG limps, hero raises to $15, Villain calls, BTN calls, BB calls

Flop: (JT4) (pot=$50)
Hero bets $35, villain calls $35, everyone else folds

Turn: (JT4) (3) (pot=$120)
Hero bets $75, villain raises all in to $284, hero?
1-2 NLHE - AA gets reraised OTT Quote
01-21-2014 , 02:25 AM
Looks like a fold with the very limited reads.
1-2 NLHE - AA gets reraised OTT Quote
01-21-2014 , 02:29 AM
What is his range OTT? I expect this player to reraise most made hands (JT,JJ,TT,44) on this flop.
1-2 NLHE - AA gets reraised OTT Quote
01-21-2014 , 02:32 AM
Getting over 2:1 I don't see a fold. V is described as loose/aggressive so he can show up with various bluffs, draws, combos, and worse value hands. If you are beat I would suspect it's to 34.
1-2 NLHE - AA gets reraised OTT Quote
01-21-2014 , 02:33 AM
Call
1-2 NLHE - AA gets reraised OTT Quote
01-21-2014 , 02:35 AM
As far as reads goes: I have played with player a couple of other times. He is a third level thinker, likes to talk strategy, and is a decent hand reader.
1-2 NLHE - AA gets reraised OTT Quote
01-21-2014 , 02:39 AM
Since you have the A it limits some of his flush draw combos; though if he is loose aggressive he might have such combos as K9, Q8 and maybe 86. Though, the only value hands I could see LAG having is 44 or JT so I think this is a call. I feel like with these reads villain is trying to make you fold an overpair, figuring you are so tight.
1-2 NLHE - AA gets reraised OTT Quote
01-21-2014 , 02:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowbastard
What is his range OTT? I expect this player to reraise most made hands (JT,JJ,TT,44) on this flop.
Since we don't know what his usual tendencies with those hands are we have to assume he flats the flop with those hands with some frequency. And it's more likely that he flats the flop and jams turn with a made hand than flats flop and jams turn with a draw. Also we have the A of spades which weights his range more towards made hands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peckx063
If you are beat I would suspect it's to 34.
I'd say he has 34 here pretty close to never.
1-2 NLHE - AA gets reraised OTT Quote
01-21-2014 , 02:56 AM
Like even if we knew he does this with all made hands and all FD + gutters or better we're just barely getting odds to call.

We would have to have a read that he doesn't play made hands this way or he semibluffs the turn extremely wide for this to be a good call.
1-2 NLHE - AA gets reraised OTT Quote
01-21-2014 , 03:01 AM
I think I'd call. Your turn sizing is a little weak; he might think he can get you to fold AJ.

44 is by far V's most likely holding that is ahead. I think he raises J10 on flop and JJ/1010 PF. Although 1010 is possible. He has a million draws in his range and we're ahead of all of them on the turn with one to come.

Last edited by Ray Horton; 01-21-2014 at 03:07 AM.
1-2 NLHE - AA gets reraised OTT Quote
01-21-2014 , 08:01 AM
Foooold. Raising a turn blank makes no sense with a draw, unless he had 34ss.

You are pretty much playing aa/kk/qq face up, so think about how this affects how he plays towards you. Tight players almost never fold aa/kk in this spot, when the V isn't a moron it seems he would know that he's burning money with a bluff/draw by shoving ott. LAG/thinking players are not scared to smooth with a monster, even with players behind. You have way less fold equity if he puts you in ott.
1-2 NLHE - AA gets reraised OTT Quote
01-21-2014 , 09:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel9861


I'd say he has 34 here pretty close to never.
Check/call flop and check/raise turn can only be a very select few hands that are ahead of AA imo.

Would make little sense to play a flopped set this way on a JTboard. That check/raise is coming OTF.

Would make little sense to play a flopped draw this way either since semi-bluffing players typically aren't going to wait for their equity to be cut in half before making a move. Check/call line with draw is likely to check/call again.

The value hands that make the most sense are J3/T3/43. The draws that make sense are things like 5s6s or Ks3s.

From what I see on this hand, the 3 somehow impacts his hand (unless it's just an airball)

But who knows, this guy is level 3!
1-2 NLHE - AA gets reraised OTT Quote
01-21-2014 , 09:20 AM
Personally I don't love folding hands where:
1. I'm at the top of my range.
2. I'm folding to the same bet I was planning on making. Hopefully we were planning on making a stack-committing bet (or shove) on the river.
1-2 NLHE - AA gets reraised OTT Quote
01-21-2014 , 10:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel9861
Since we don't know what his usual tendencies with those hands are we have to assume he flats the flop with those hands with some frequency. And it's more likely that he flats the flop and jams turn with a made hand than flats flop and jams turn with a draw. Also we have the A of spades which weights his range more towards made hands.


Like even if we knew he does this with all made hands and all FD + gutters or better we're just barely getting odds to call.

We would have to have a read that he doesn't play made hands this way or he semibluffs the turn extremely wide for this to be a good call.
I agree with this and think it's a fold.
1-2 NLHE - AA gets reraised OTT Quote
01-21-2014 , 10:37 AM
I would put him most likely on two pair. Over pairs would be the second most likely holding.
1-2 NLHE - AA gets reraised OTT Quote
01-21-2014 , 11:22 AM
getting 2.3-1 i dont think you can fold this. V can have a lot of combo draws you beat and you have the nut flush blocker which is important
1-2 NLHE - AA gets reraised OTT Quote
01-21-2014 , 12:02 PM
Why does having the nut flush blocker matter? If anything, it reduces the chance that V is shoving with a draw.
1-2 NLHE - AA gets reraised OTT Quote
01-21-2014 , 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Horton
I think I'd call. Your turn sizing is a little weak; he might think he can get you to fold AJ.

44 is by far V's most likely holding that is ahead. I think he raises J10 on flop and JJ/1010 PF. Although 1010 is possible. He has a million draws in his range and we're ahead of all of them on the turn with one to come.
How do you size your bet on the turn and why?
1-2 NLHE - AA gets reraised OTT Quote
01-21-2014 , 02:29 PM
I bet 1/2 P OTT and fold to raise.

On the flop he can't have many drawing hands that he is comfortable calling with. You have the Nut flush blocker so take out AKs, AQs. You say hes aggressive so he can't have KQs. KQo he probably raises with OESD and Overcards. Probably the same with AKo, AQo. And finally no 89s, 79s, 67s, Q9s for same reasons.

After he calls your bet OTF my range for him is. Sets, JT, QJ+, QT+, Q9o, 89o, J9, 88+, A2s+.

Turn card is a blank and he ships it? Unless he's a maniac hes got Set, Two Pair and maybe AJ/KJ.
1-2 NLHE - AA gets reraised OTT Quote
01-23-2014 , 05:53 AM
This is an interesting spot since a villain would usually raise JT or a set here since they have a player left to act and it is a draw heavy board. That being said I still think we're looking for a fold. This line usually means a flopped monster in my opinion, though I've seen older guys make plays like this with overpairs.

Definitely a fold.
1-2 NLHE - AA gets reraised OTT Quote
01-23-2014 , 06:30 AM
The pot total seems off, you raise to $15 and get 3 callers, it should be $64 if action is as stated.

I think I'm calling this turn raise though, he should still have a lot of draws in his range, and maybe some AJ, KJ combos that he might be over valuing.
1-2 NLHE - AA gets reraised OTT Quote
01-23-2014 , 06:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_wiggles
This is an interesting spot since a villain would usually raise JT or a set here since they have a player left to act and it is a draw heavy board. That being said I still think we're looking for a fold. This line usually means a flopped monster in my opinion, though I've seen older guys make plays like this with overpairs.

Definitely a fold.
So we should expect that he would have raised all set and 2pr hands, he didn't, but we still think he has a monster?
1-2 NLHE - AA gets reraised OTT Quote
01-23-2014 , 07:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EfromPegTown
So we should expect that he would have raised all set and 2pr hands, he didn't, but we still think he has a monster?
I worded my post pretty poorly. I was trying to say that while he didn't take the line we would expect with 2p/sets, an aggro villain is definitely capable calling flop here if he knows you'll keep betting with hero's tight image. While his line seems fishy, it still stands that he knows you have an overpair. He also knows his line makes no sense since flush/straight didn't make it so he will get paid off here all day. I just can't imagine villain stacking off like this with a draw anytime but OTF

Pretty sure I've leveled myself like 10 times thinking about this hand tho
1-2 NLHE - AA gets reraised OTT Quote
01-23-2014 , 08:52 AM
I read somewhere "If you face a raise on the turn and you are only holding one pair, it's time to seriously start re-evaluating your hand." With this in mind I would say that the majority of the time you are behind. However it also doesn't mean you should always fold. He could over value his own one pair hand. He could be playing his opponent (you) pushing you around thinking he can make you fold. He could also be on the draw and has decided he's not folding so gets it in with a small bit of fold equity left. People play hands in different ways. I use my gut feeling in these situations. But I'd say your behind.
1-2 NLHE - AA gets reraised OTT Quote
01-23-2014 , 09:09 AM
What range is he putting you on? If over-pairs only then this may be the only way he can win the pot ... however ...

I think against guys like this I check the Turn a bunch so I don't have to face this decision. Yes, we miss value and possibly allow a free card but we have no way to narrow his range down based on the actions here OOP. Sure you may have to c/c Turn, but it wont be an all-in ... and if it is, then you have folded out for less chips.

I don't see us having him crushed here very often .. does he do this with KK/QQ? Probably raises PF with JJ+ ...

Need more history and if that's not available then it's a 'game time' decision based on your vibe at the time. I could go either way ... GL
1-2 NLHE - AA gets reraised OTT Quote

      
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