*Backstory and table dynamic for those interested in the "meta gaming" involved prior to the hand in question.
(if not, feel free to skip it and get straight to the hand)

Scenario:

It seemed to be uncharacteristically quiet at Casino Niagara for a Sat night. I recognized many regs and a bunch of unfamiliar faces who appear to be quite comfortable playing live, but not all that many obvious "rec" players per table, or players who were showing some of the obvious signs of looking (uncomfortable/lost/confused/Wiley eyed) or the usual collection of people who were there mainly for "fun and social gambling/drinking". Although I seemed to be able to spot them, it seemed proportionally low for a Sat night.

There was barely any names on the waiting list at Casino Niagara and the Bad Beat Jackpot was low.

Meanwhile, Fallsview Casino's waiting list was buried with an abnormally longer waiting list than usual. (Bad Beat Jackpot was over $100k and the Seneca Casino was approaching $80k). Seneca is within walking distance from Casino Niagara.

My name happened to be near the top of the short waiting list and as I was waiting to play, I was scanning the room and noticed that there were a lot of seat changes going on in a short period of time. Then, an elderly gentleman made a seat change at the table in front of me and I was offered his newly vacated seat.

I sat down and observed that my table consisted of a "reg" (seated 2 to my right) who recognized me and we exchange pleasantries. I noticed 2 other "regs" at my table, and 2 other "serious" unknown players in their mid 20's (demonstrating proficient chip shuffling tendencies) and the rest was a mix. 2 players were wearing sunglasses. They gave me the impression that they were "posturing" but seemed very expressive in hands (facially and with body control) which game me the initial impression where they might be coming from ie: "WPT tv table wannabes" for example? But no judgments. (Only observational info to provide you with a visual representation). The other 2 were drinking and socializing quite a bit.

I overheard the 2 "unknowns in their 20's" talking to one another about how the waiting list was too long for their usual game. Although there seemed to be a lot of action, they were tired of waiting. One other reg was muttering about how "bad" our table was and left to a new table. (Not bad, in a good "profitable" way, I'm assuming) I began to wonder if the Bad Beat Jackpots at Fallsview and Seneca were attracting the lions share of the "rec" players...

A new guy "27-32yrs old" sat in the newly vacated seat and the dealer commented to him something to the effects" I haven't seen you here in years." The player responded that he was tired of waiting for a seat at Fallsview and saw that he could get in a game at Casino Niagara right away, so here he was.

The guy to my left went broke after his 6th Caesar and this new 5/10 grinder (who was across the table from me) immediately moved to the empty seat (directly to my left). I had a good idea what he was up to. Up until that time, 4 of us seemed to avoid each other and took turns getting into pots with the 3-4 people who were involved (seemingly every hand).

The "grinder" now had position on myself and the other "reg" and began to assert his role right away as table captain. He opened the game up, punishing limpers and iso raising and putting the squeeze on and firing out big bets. I felt a bit handcuffed (positionally) as I watched him take pot after pot. He's shown AK when he's raised several limpers and has tabled 9's when iso raising a raise and 2 callers (getting to showdown and putting a squeeze with Queens also).

So, he was playing the good to premium holdings (the ones that I've seen) aggressively. His opening frequency was pretty high, so he was either getting an above average distribution of cards in a short period of time (which does happen), or... opening a fairly wide range.

Then, a seat opened up 2 to his left and well, I took it, obviously. (I'm sure he knew right away what I was doing also). Based on game flow, I got the feeling that he was going to try and "out play" me sooner rather than later. It's the same kind of feeling you get when you think "I don't think that person likes me very much". The following hand happened soon after my seat change.

------------

THE HAND:
(for now, I'll keep our cards concealed, so that you can see it unfold as an outside observer

I started the hand with roughly $235

I raised from UTG to $6

I got 3 callers. (2 passive players and 1 "reg").
The Small blind folded
The "5/10 Grinder" ie: villain in the BIG BLIND calls with a bit over $300 in his stack.

(The player to my right. The true UTG was not at the table, so I was actually UTG+1)

So, the pot was $31

The flop was:

Qs 5s 7h

The "grinder" lead out from the big blind and donk bet $16 into the 4 of us.

I 3-bet him to $50

The other 3 players folded and the "5/10 Grinder" in the big blind called fairly quickly for the $34 more.

Pot was $131. I had about $180 left.

The turn card was the Kc and the board was now:

Qs 5s 7h Kc

He thought for a about 3-4 seconds and made a slow "check".

I let out a very subtle "sight" followed by, "I'm all-in" and placed my $180 into the pot.

He tanked as I stared blankly at the pot... He eventually mucked his hand and I scooped the $320 pot.


*I will share my hand, but I wanted to hear what you fine folks thought he and I had in that hand. It was a hand that had everyone's attention and got a bunch of the players talking. ie: Trying to goad me saying "show the bluff", or "pocket Kings, obviously" etc speculating what we could have there.

I turned to my buddy and asked what hand he was putting me on. He said, he thought I was playing back at the Grinder who was seemingly making a play at me.

I got up after the hand. (Just before I was the big blind) to go to the washroom and to take that time to deconstruct the hand while it was fresh on my mind.

On my way out of the washroom, I ran into the other "reg" at my table who greeted me with a big smile and a hand shake saying "Galfond, you played that hand great, bro! Once you left for the washroom that 5/10 grinder asked for a table change.... So, if you were bluffing there... that was sick!... but.. Did you have it?"

BTW:

For some reason, the table was calling me Galfond... I'm not "tall" 5'9", I'm a bit chubby and wasn't clean shaven on Sat night and I also happened to be playing with a light hoody, which I don't always do. Ppl tell me that I remind them of him... Not that I'm any good, but that there's a slight resemblance, and maybe we have a similar demeanour and mannerism at the table. Anyways, I'm in no way delusional about the reference. If i grew a beard and left my hair unkempt and someone called me Gallifinakis, I wouldn't take it that it must mean that I'm hilarious.

Thanks in advance on your hand construction and I will post what I had along with my thought process on every street, shortly

Longest first post ever. Cliffs? Read the sticky on how to post hand histories.

I'm discounting KK and QQ from your range immediately because of the tiny bet pre flop. Without knowing much about your game, a small UTG raise is usually a speculative hand trying to set his own price for the flop.


55 and 77 are certainly in your range, but I wouldn't expect an overshove on the turn from a set, so I'm discounting those hands a bit.

I think your most likely holding is a combo draw like 6s8s, TsJs, 9sTs, AsTs, or air. I'm probably caling your turn shove pretty light here.

Wj94, thanks for the tip. I'll look into that. Do you have any feedback about the hand?

Thanks Dubey for taking the time to break the hand down from your perspective.

Most times when I play 1/2 at this casino... it's usually between 4-5x, but the standard open raise amount in every position for the table up to that point seemed to be 3x on that particular night.

Since I was expecting to at least get called by 1, or 2 opponents (wether I min raised, or raised 5x)... I knew that I'd likely be playing the rest of the hand out of position so, I elected to raise 3x. Partly because I wanted to keep my options open to play the hand differently if I was be 3-bet pre flop. I pretty much wanted to have the option to raise/call a 3-bet or 4-bet (depending). Also, I didn't want to give away my range by playing exploitably with a raise on the larger side.

That's partly how I wanted my perceived range to be. (55, 77, QQ+, 6s8s, TsJs, 9sTs, AsXs, or air) in other words, I wanted to be able to play the hand the same way with a super wide range to keep him guessing. So far in the hand I felt like I would've done the same thing with all of those holdings for balance, deception and fend from being exploited by an observant player. This guy was a strong player IMO.

To answer your guesstimation, Dubey. I held none of the hands you mentioned. To narrow my range for you a bit (if the last hint hasn't done so already). I put the villain on the range you assigned to me. More specifically, 6s8s, TsJs, 9sTs, AsTs, or air. (Mainly because he flat called a multiway pot from the big blind)

I discounted QQ+, because he would've 3-bet me pre flop from the big blind with 3 callers (as he's shown earlier) and after donk betting AND flat calling my raise rather quickly... Considering my line (given and the position I opened from). I figured he would've put me on a narrow range like an over pair (KK-AA, or AsKs) and would've concluded that I wasn't folding to a re-shove.

Also, I find (in my experience) a donk bet is indicative of a top pair hand (weak kicker) or a semi bluff with a draw (for deception) and my raise was saying "I know you have a Q. It's not good enough, so if you want to play it, you're playing it for a big pot."

"If" he was donk betting a hand with a Queen, like QT/QJ/Qs9s. I wondered if he would be doing it for information. ie: Wanting to see if his top pair / weak kicker was any good, or...

I was wondering if he was just trying to represent flopping top pair to confuse and freeze me with a draw (if he put me on something like, 8's-JJ). Maybe to see if the Q scared me into letting go of my under pair,AxKx or...

For information... seeing if I continue by flat calling, (I'm telling him that I'm pot controlling, or that I do have a hand, but it's not that strong... which would invite him to try and take it away from me on the turn... Leaving me to be the one guessing)

I wasn't too keen on allowing him to set the price to see the turn, or even the river for free (if I would check behind for pot control). I didn't have spades and would've been sick if I let him name his price and get to the river cheaply. Then he could have a flush and/or rep a flush and he would've put me in a position that I wanted to avoid altogether.

Considering there were 3 others in the hand still left to act and I felt like he was betting out on the flop to gain info/semi-bluff and my response to that was a raise (and also too gain information of my own). His check on the turn made me exclude a set along with all premium holdings based on his pre flop call. The only hand I really worried about was KQ, but I didn't want to dwell too much about monsters under the bed. Besides, it would be tough for him to call given I could very easily of had QQ/KK if he felt like I was protecting my hand from the flush draw and that it appeared like I was shovelling money into the pot for max value...

This was what I was 1/2 expecting him to do with the hands I put him on ( a A5, A7s, 6s8s, TsJs, 9sTs, AsXs, 22, 33, 44, 66, 88-JJ, or air... all of which I'm beating) I figured that my line of overbetting the turn (after he checked) would have looked polarized. I figured he'd be thinking "Either he has it, or he's bluffing." And would call off light with either the draw, or pair + draw that I put him on (even though I did price him out. Either way, considering I opened in early position, re-popped his donk bet with 3 others yet to act (on the flop) and shoved the turn after he checked... I figured my line was super strong and by applying max pressure on him, I'd either charge him the max to play his draw (combo draw) or call pretty light if he happen to have a small piece that would be beating a bluff (like AJ, and everything else I mentioned above that he didn't have) I wanted him to feel like I was letting him know that he's either "way ahead, or way behind" while getting him to call light if can beat a bluff. Basically I was polarizing my depolarized hand that would be beating the hands he'd call me down with. I didn't have KK and I wasn't at all worried he had 10's+, since he iso raised his small blind to a similar situation not that long ago.

So, that said... What hands are you prepared to call light from his seat? Also, after everything I shared... now what do you think I have?

Thanks for your input!

ugh this is unreadable. just post what you had and why you did it, or don't and let people respond. this seems like a fairly unremarkable hand

Isn't that the point? Playing the unremarkable hands are the meat of the game, no? It's my experience that's what separates a winning session and a losing one... the way one plays their many "unremarkable and marginal" hands.

My post wasn't intended to tell a bad beat story, or to discuss a cooler hand that pretty much plays itself. Who improves their game in those situations compared to the many marginal ones we face? I personally don't find "how do i play the nuts here? Either way, I win." very constructive compared to the ladder when it comes to evolving your game.

These are the kinds of "unremarkable" hands that I discuss with my friends. I thought this was an ideal place to have more of these kinds of exchanges.

Anyways, each to their own.

Back to answer your question. I had pocket 10's. but in my opinion. My hand may as well have been 88, 99, TT, JJ. I felt that I was able to make him fold out the middling holdings that beat my 10's (like a weak Queen). I also wanted to extract max value from the many other possible bluff catchers that I beat while pricing him out of his draws.

There you have it!

Thanks for your time. Feel free to analyze/criticize further. I'm all ears and open to different approaches/perspectives. I can certainly take the criticism and I enjoy participating in intellectual debates. (Staying on topic is obviously preferred).

Thanks again!

I would put you on, street-by-street:

• Preflop {77+,ATs+,AJo+,KQs #104} + {assorted Axs, 66-22, QJs-32s, QTs-86s #40-80}
• Flop {77,QQ+ #18} + {Ax(6),76, JT, T9, A[J,K]o, A[T,J,K], A[J,K] #24}
• Turn {77,AK(7) #10} + {JT,T9,AJo, AJo #8}

But probably fewer bluffs than that, really, so I would fold anything less than KQ. (Although I can't think of any hands I would play the way Villain did.)

That's a pretty good assessment for an outside observer who can't see either of our hands (much like one would do while sitting at the same table).

Since I had 10's, (no spade) I mostly put him on middling spades that flop well when you close the action in a multi way pot like all of the hands that were mentioned, and (to a lesser degree) a weak Queen and also, pocket pairs below 9's (given that he's shown that he likes to play big aces and 9's+ aggressively pre flop). For all I know, he had an over/under like AJ and was floating my raise on the flop and assessing my action on the turn, hoping I'd check behind for pot control and to maybe hit a concealed gut shot...

Thanks for your input!

This is 1/2 NL and he was in the BB so he could literally have almost any two cards that even partially connected with this flop. Your flop raise is terrible, and when he calls you're almost certainly way behind or facing a strong flush draw.

Also, your "sigh" all-in is a weird move, no one is paying attention and/or genuinely believes it.

First off agree with others but this post is a mess....I skimmed it so I'm sure I missed details.

PF raise size too small (unless some table dynamic was different from typical 1/2 game)
Flop raise is horrible (unless your turning hand into bluff???)
Turn shove I guess is okay (best played of all streets) again if your bluffing? If your shoving for value or don't know why your shoving then it's terrible.

I would highly recommend not doing this against average 1/2 player as they can't fold top pair hands. If you did this because he's a 5/10 player and you felt he would fold a Q then it's not a bad play

King is great turn card for a bluff shove (if that's what your plan was) on turn but again wouldn't do it vs most 1/2players.

Sorry if this is harsh but I think you played the hand pretty bad.

"Son of a bitch, you made a move on Chan. What ya have Aces or Kings"

Look out for KGB..I've seen this play out before

Sent from my DROID X2

I agree. At 1/2NL he could literally have ANY two cards, but considering he was a 5/10 grinder and based on the fact that I've seen that he plays 99+ and AQ/AK fast pre flop, I omitted premium holdings from his range.

Otherwise, I believe that he would have certainly made a re-raise pre-flop to thin the field (as he's shown several times before) rather than close the action and go to the flop out of position 5 handed. This screamed to me "I've got something speculative."

Another detail worth mentioning is that he moved to the open seat to my left and after a short while, I recently moved to the next available seat 2 to his left, so I had a strong feeling that he wanted to assert his dominance over me. This hand seemed like the 1st opportunity for him to do that and... I had been anticipating it.

I find that a quick call is usually indicative of a draw, but not a big draw although AsXs was a consideration. If I was REALLY beat (by a set, or flopped 2 pair), I feel that he would've played the hand fast and put in a 3-bet instead of "slow playing" with a call. He's shown to press his strong hands hard. His call actually narrowed his hand for me. It made it less likely that he had a Q, or a set... leaving draws as his most probable holdings. Going to the turn, I was thinking to myself how I wanted to see anything other than a 6, 8, 9, or any spades.

I'm getting the impression that the better alternative to raising the big blind's donk bet on the flop (the only person I had position on) was to... call?

I did think about it, but since there were still 3 others left to act in the hand, I didn't want MY call to lay them better odds to continue in the hand (in position on me).

I figured if either of them had a hand that was beating me (like a weak Q), a call would allow one, or both of them to peel another card whereas a raise would put them both in a tough spot seeing they wouldn't be closing the action (due to the fact that they were being sandwiched between the donk bettor and my raise).

I figured a raise there (while neither of them were very invested) was by best opportunity to thin the field and get whatever marginal hands (that were beating me) to fold out allowing me to go HU with the 5/10 grinder for the remainder of the hand (in position).

He was a 5/10 grinder and was very much observing me. Have you ever heard of "the speech" followed by an all-in being anything other than the nuts?

After the hand, I got up to go to the bathroom and on my way out (of the washroom), I ran into the other 1/2 reg who told me that he "knew right away I had KK, or QQ" by the "sigh" subsequent all-in. I guess it worked on at least one observant person at the table. The 1/2 reg also added that, once I left the table, the 5/10 grinder asked for a table change. He was no longer there when I got back

Yeah, I'm sorry about the format of my post. I'll work on improving that. I was trying to make a point to myself that everyone would have "all of the answers" (with the luxury of hindsight), if I divulged my cards right away. So, I was curious to see how many people could put me on my actual hand if I withheld that information. No one came close. Not even my range.

But, now that I've disclosed my holdings... I'm getting people's (wanted) opinions (mostly how I played it incorrectly) even though I seemed to represent everything BUT what I actually had, lol! But yes, you likely did miss some details by skim reading.

Yes, my open raise of 3x was entirely based on the table dynamic. All open raises have been to 3x up to that point and I wanted to keep my hand concealed. Also, I've been playing pretty tight (mostly card dead) and have been taking all of my pots down without a showdown, so I figured if I made it to 5x (UTG) I may have narrowed my range too much and would have had a harder time representing some flop textures. There were 4 other observant 5/10 regs and 2 other 1/2 regs at this table, so I wanted to remain as balanced as possible vs these guys.

I totally agree!

That was part of my thinking. To make him fold his weak Q (which was beating me) AND to price him out of the many possible draws (which I felt he was more likely to be on).

I also agree. When the flop came out, I was actually thinking to myself "This is almost an ideal flop texture to c-bet" then when the big blind lead out with a donk bet. "I figured that he may have thought the same about this flop and figured that (if he had a Q), he would garner less credible info by check/calling a "standard" c-bet to this kind of flop texture than what my response to his donk bet would be. I actually didn't feel like the King changed anything with his hand. I didn't believe that there could've been any Kings in his range (given his action pre flop and on the flop).

I also didn't want to show "weakness" by letting him take the betting lead away from me to then be the one left guessing... if he were to double barrel the many turn cards that I "shouldn't like".

ie: If the turn were to be a spade, a middling card that completes a concealed straight, or an over card... Say he were to go all-in because of my weak line of just calling his donk bet on the flop? It would have invited him to make a play at me, (leaving me guessing). I'd much rather be the one putting in the last bet than to let him do it. Up until that time, no one was putting up a fight vs him. I was the 1st one to show him any aggressive action. (Especially given that my line UTG was over repping my hand, I felt like my shove would have put enough pressure on him to let it go).

Don't apologize for seeming "harsh", but I appreciate it nonetheless. You weren't being harsh. I wouldn't have posted if I couldn't take differing opinions. I expected to get all kinds of responses. Some ideas about the hand and others less constructive, but I welcome them all the same.

Thanks for your input!

I'm not sure why Villain would want to donk the flop with a draw here. You're raising a decent portion of your range to avoid giving other opponents odds to overcall, and he'll hate life when you raise and they all fold (as it played out this time). How often are you EVER flatting this flop with 3 players to act behind you? I suppose you might with Axs? If he has a draw, checking >> leading.

Qx is most of his range, imo, and he's folding all of it but QK. Nice hand.

Right, it works perfectly as a bluff. The 3 opponents behind will fold the vast majority of their ranges, and Villain will have a very tough time calling the raise + another bet with Qx. I don't see what the problem is.

Edit: Come to think of it, wouldn't we also want to raise AA/KK/AQ here anyway to deny everyone else correct odds to continue?

This is horrendous and indicative of live players. Pure spew. Why are you trying to fold out draws that you crush with sdv. This line makes more sense with JTs,KTs,AJ,AK,T9s etc with a backdoor flush draw since you wil turn a lot of turn cards that provide equity to your bluff.villain most likely is leading a draw here or qj/qx type of hand.

Too much ****ing info. Anyway there are a few caveats to this essay you wrote:

1. You're playing live
2. You're play lowstakes live
3. You're trying to make reads on players you have like 5 hands of history with, presumably

These 3 things combined mean toss your "reads" out the window and just assume everyone is bad. For starters, you seem to feel this fancy 5/10 guy knew all the tricks and took position on you. Lets pretend for a moment he did. Well if he made a concerted effort to gain position on you, and then noticed you did the same back to him, you think he's just gonna start playing all ******ed and stupid out of position? Players always seem to think if they get position on someone they are instantly going to crush him. BUT, if they are aware you took position on them then they arent going to play like a donk vs you. I mean afterall, did you play like a donk vs him when he took position on you? No, of course not. You played very carefully and chose your spots wisely. Retaking position on him is a waste of time. Take position on the dumb donk fish at the table, not the higher stakes regs.

Anyway donkbets are always garbage and some pathetic "see where I'm at" kind of hand. Considering he just flat called you preflop his range is basically any pocket pair up to TT that did not make a set. He donkbet to see what you would do because he's scared of overcards peeling on the turn. He could even have top pair which would be disastrous for you since you should never expect him to fold that. He called your raise because hes a ****ing donk and ignored his own goal to see where he was at, which puts his range on 66-TT without a set and any Queen. Since the turn didnt help him any he gave up. Problem is he probably peels another street even with a naked queen, and then talks himself into calling it all off on the river because he thinks he's pot committed at that point. This is why if someone calls your bluff raise you should immediately give up because they have just announced they are a calling station and never intend to fold except in the most rarest of cases.

Your range is kinda irrelevant here since he wasnt even thinking about your range or else he wouldnt have donkbet. You could probably bluff him off with 72o if you wanted since he's just trying to get to showdown cheaply. Ideally your range SHOULD be any flush draw and top pair or better.

I dont think you had any other questions so there it is.

What do you suggest I bet on the turn?

The pot had $131 and I had $180 left.

Bet $100, leaving $80 behind make no sense to me because I'm not putting over half my stack in and folding and I'm not betting less than $100 there (like $80) and giving him a reason to call to get there cheep (if he had a draw). To me, checking would've been horrible. He donked the flop and I'm pretty sure had I of checked back the turn, he would've donked the river to put me to the test. There were way too many river cards that I would not have liked to see with pocket 10's.

Then I'd be forced into a difficult spot of calling with 3rd pair. I can't think of too many good river cards for my hand.

What does a raise pre flop, re-raise flop, check turn look like there? To me, (in the meta gaming sense) it looked a lot like I originally intended to stand up to a bully and when we got face to face... It became obvious that I was only posturing and had given up when he indicated that he wasn't quite convinced. It would've been like him saying.... "Whataya gonna do about it? Notin!"

Maybe a passive line on the turn would've been less spewy. While living in the moment, it seemed that anything less would've been either too passive, or an improper bet size (worse so than the shove).

I think by checking. It would've meant that I'd conceited that my only chance to win that hand was by holding the best hand at showdown. But...

What if! What if he did have a weak Q? Don't you think by pot controlling that he would've been more likely to call the very same bet when his hand is better defined on the river? It was obvious that I was "protecting" so he would've known that there would've been many more good cards for him than me on the river. Non spade, his Q looks even better. A spade, he can rep it or he hit his draw, etc etc.

Like I said. I was trying to get him to fold a Queen AND to price him out IF he had a draw. I was not in favour of giving him a cheap price to see another card because that's what it felt like he was telling me is what he wanted. A check says, "I want to see the river for free, or pot control because I don't want to bloat the pot with this hand... yet."

I'm not a big fan of letting someone manipulate me into playing it the way he wants me to. I wasn't going to oblige him. I'd rather do the opposite of what I feel he wants to accomplish and play out of his/my comfort zone and say "You want to play a small pot? Well, we're playing it my way, not yours and I'm playing for stacks."

You may very well still be right, but if I had of let him get there, or lost heart and lost to a Q because of my passive line on the turn, I would've been sick with regrets. If he calls light (with a weak Q) I can live with it because I figured he had what he had and my bet would've been able to push him off, but ... now I know. If he would've called light (on a draw or with a wide range of hands I was beating) then I coul've said that I got max value from my hand and the result wouldn't have bothered me. (Focusing only when the money goes in). I could live with many outcomes by my turn aggression and I can't say the same had I of let him see the river cheaply.

Maybe that's somewhere I need to improve. If I had more money behind or if I had him covered... then I think that a shove would've been sub-optimal, but my stack was an awkward size to continue. I beleive I would've lost fold equity by 5th street. I could be wrong (but I'm beginning to doubt that now).

I wasn't sure about this hand when I posted it, but the more I read responses and talk about it... The more it's providing me with clarity. When plugging all of his more likely holdings in... the more I like the aggressive line than the more passive one.

I guess it's all depending on what the villain actually had.

Thanks for helping me work through this. You guys are all very helpfu!

Trying to make someone fold top pair, especially in a live game, is pretty ambitious. But it sounds like this wasnt so much your goal as was just playing back at him. TT is too good of a hand to bluff with. Poker is all about patience, dont force the action. You get the chicken by hatching the egg, not by smashing it.

I understand your point. I felt that this guy in particular was quite capable of folding his flopped top pair when the turn brought in an over card, but maybe I got lucky and he was just floating me with absolute air