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1/2 NL: Turned Top Pair Line Check 1/2 NL: Turned Top Pair Line Check

03-09-2015 , 09:08 AM
V recently changed tables with a $500 stack while I was grabbing a beer at the bar. No reads on V but he seems to have the "look" of a decent player. Friendly with the dealer, doesn't look like a noticeable drooler.

Hero is slightly down for the night but V doesn't know since he hasn't seen me play any hands. Effective stacks of $250.

V limps in MP
HJ limps
CO limps
SB folds
Hero raises to $16 in the BB with AQ
V calls
HJ folds
CO folds

Pot: ~$35

Flop: K 4 T

Hero bets $20
V calls $20 fairly quickly

Ranging V on Kx and flush draws at this point

Pot: ~$75

Turn: A

Hero checks
V checks

I wanted to disguise my hand a bit here and get a better sense of what V may have. I think he would bet his Kx, afraid of the flush coming in, and may check back Axcc flush draws

River: 6

Hero bets $50
V calls $50

Pretty standard value bet in my opinion. Hoping to get looked up by pretty much any Kx and Axcc flush draws that didn't hit. Thoughts?
1/2 NL: Turned Top Pair Line Check Quote
03-09-2015 , 09:16 AM
I would bet $30 on this flop. I would usually bet the turn as well to charge a flush draw. As played, the river bet is good, but I would make it a little bigger.
1/2 NL: Turned Top Pair Line Check Quote
03-09-2015 , 09:21 AM
You have to bet turn IMO. Why give OP a free card?
1/2 NL: Turned Top Pair Line Check Quote
03-09-2015 , 09:28 AM
You will be checking the turn with a lot of your range here because you think the villain is unlikely to give up on the turn after calling the flop, and it's nice in theory to have some decent hands in your checking range. Having a club as a blocker makes the check better though.

But more importantly, I don't think any of that matters in a 1/2 game, and the reason you would check is that they are likely to have a lot of draws that would call, so bet.
1/2 NL: Turned Top Pair Line Check Quote
03-09-2015 , 09:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobman0330
You will be checking the turn with a lot of your range here because you think the villain is unlikely to give up on the turn after calling the flop, and it's nice in theory to have some decent hands in your checking range. Having a club as a blocker makes the check better though.

But more importantly, I don't think any of that matters in a 1/2 game, and the reason you would check is that they are likely to have a lot of draws that would call, so bet.
And in this case you would mean specifically the A blocker since that would most likely remove flush draws from V's range other than QJ right? Meaning by having the blocker, it's more likely we can make a value bet on the river that V would likely fold to on the turn.
1/2 NL: Turned Top Pair Line Check Quote
03-09-2015 , 11:37 AM
Yeah. If the villain has the Ac, we really want to bet because he's usually behind and will always call with a flush draw (and maybe on the river too). If he doesn't have the Ac, he's less likely to be drawing.
1/2 NL: Turned Top Pair Line Check Quote
03-09-2015 , 11:57 AM
I think it's a fine c-bet. This hits your range pretty hard and will get villain to fold, say, 22-99, back door equity, etc. That said, it hits his range well too (broadway, clubs). If we were in position, I would probably just check behind holding the nut no pair and probably make a delayed c-bet on turns if he checks again.

Bet again on the turn. His flush draws give you value, Kx could definitely peel one. Plan would be to check/decide rivers or bet small on rivers for value.

As played, the river value bet is fine.
1/2 NL: Turned Top Pair Line Check Quote
03-09-2015 , 12:00 PM
Why would our Vilain check turn with Ace high club draw?

Going for 1 street of value is fine IMO (so would going for 2 streets on alot of rivers.) But I think we get more value on turn than river. Turn is easy bet/fold spot. Only getting bluffed by AXcc (which has alot of value)
1/2 NL: Turned Top Pair Line Check Quote
03-09-2015 , 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz

Effective stacks of $250.

V limps in MP
Hero raises to $16 in the BB with AQ
V calls

Pot: ~$35

Flop: K 4 T

Hero bets $20
V calls $20 fairly quickly

I think we can bet less here and get away with it. We have some equity, V doesn't always have to have a King, so I'd try as low as $10 if we're pretty certain this V won't bluff raise.

Ranging V on Kx and flush draws at this point

Pot: ~$75

Turn: A

Hero checks
V checks

I'd bet a little something here. I do like the idea of disguising the hand a bit and checking back in hopes V makes a river bet. However, you're going to get a lot of calls from worse on this board. Plus, I can't tell you how many times when that Ace hits to make my hand, and I check back, they show up with 2 pair, Ace x. So given that, and this board, I think betting is better, say half pot or so.

I wanted to disguise my hand a bit here and get a better sense of what V may have. I think he would bet his Kx, afraid of the flush coming in, and may check back Axcc flush draws

River: 6

Hero bets $50
V calls $50

Pretty standard value bet in my opinion. Hoping to get looked up by pretty much any Kx and Axcc flush draws that didn't hit. Thoughts?
I like the thinking OTR, only thing I might adjust slightly is betsize. An ace will never fold in my game. A Kx draw hand might, depending on Villain. I'd bet $35.
1/2 NL: Turned Top Pair Line Check Quote
03-09-2015 , 12:30 PM
I like your bet sizing pre, cbet, and river. When you hit your hand on the turn, why didn't you bet? You mentioned that you put him on a Kx and flush so why give villain a free card?

If the river is a , what's hero's plan? c/f?
1/2 NL: Turned Top Pair Line Check Quote
03-09-2015 , 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamade
I like your bet sizing pre, cbet, and river. When you hit your hand on the turn, why didn't you bet? You mentioned that you put him on a Kx and flush so why give villain a free card?

If the river is a , what's hero's plan? c/f?
I wasn't necessarily ready to play for stacks with just top pair and couldn't determine if betting the turn would have been the right play.

Looking back, it may have been a small lapse in judgement if my range was Kx and , but if I bet $50 on the turn, the pot is now $175 on the river with $164 remaining in my stack.

Am I blindly sticking my $164 in the middle on this runout? Or something smaller like $100 into $175?

On a scale of 1-10, how thin of a value bet would that be, 10 being razor thin?

Would playing it like this be what separates a crusher from a marginal winner? At what point is it considered overplaying your hand vs. going for super thin value? I think I can count on 1 hand the number of times I've doubled up with 1 pair.
1/2 NL: Turned Top Pair Line Check Quote
03-09-2015 , 01:05 PM
Nah, you don't have to shove - bet something you think a K or worse Ace might call.
1/2 NL: Turned Top Pair Line Check Quote
03-09-2015 , 01:27 PM
I like preflop sizing.

I'd bet a little more on flop ($25-$30), I think we'd get better hands (eg small pp) to fold a little often, and charge oesd/fd.

I think you have to bet/fold turn for value. If trying to get 2 streets you better do it when V is still drawing (fd, str8+pair like KQ, etc). You could then c/c river to induce bluffs with missed draws.

As played, I'm fine with the river bet, but V is probably only calling Kx +, and folding missed draws.
1/2 NL: Turned Top Pair Line Check Quote
03-09-2015 , 01:58 PM
Why didn’t you put V on JQ offsuit or suited
Players do call $16 preflop with JQ
He has straight draw on flop if he has unsuited
He has straight flush draw on flop if he has suited
By turn he made straight, but he wanted to check to get more money from you on the river
If V bets on turn what would be your action?
If V bets more on turn you would be folding on that board I guess.
1/2 NL: Turned Top Pair Line Check Quote
03-09-2015 , 02:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
I wasn't necessarily ready to play for stacks with just top pair and couldn't determine if betting the turn would have been the right play.

Looking back, it may have been a small lapse in judgement if my range was Kx and , but if I bet $50 on the turn, the pot is now $175 on the river with $164 remaining in my stack.

Am I blindly sticking my $164 in the middle on this runout? Or something smaller like $100 into $175?

On a scale of 1-10, how thin of a value bet would that be, 10 being razor thin?

Would playing it like this be what separates a crusher from a marginal winner? At what point is it considered overplaying your hand vs. going for super thin value? I think I can count on 1 hand the number of times I've doubled up with 1 pair.
If you're checking for pot control, then that makes sense. I can see betting on the turn and if villain raise, then that would put us in a bad spot.
1/2 NL: Turned Top Pair Line Check Quote
03-09-2015 , 02:49 PM
i think you would and should barrell that card a high % of the time anyway with your flop betting range, might as well do it when you have it.
1/2 NL: Turned Top Pair Line Check Quote
03-10-2015 , 08:13 AM
FWIW,

Spoiler:
Villain scoops pot with A6

Pretty sure I get looked up there on any other non-club card as well so I'll chalk it up to teh pokerz
1/2 NL: Turned Top Pair Line Check Quote

      
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