My mistake on the math, I will give you to 30 % to 40 % on the two perfect hands that you picked, plus JJ and Kx are dominating.

That is some low number of hands (combos of Kx and JJ) you lose to plus the two perfect hands.

Whos calls Kx with no money in the pot with a K exposed? Or calls a $10 raise and then a $40 additional raise?

Although sometimes AA runs into strong hands, 6 handed this seems odd.

There are specific reads and situations for every move in poker. I won't say never but at 1/2 or 2/5 with a hand as strong as AA I can't really find a reason NOT to raise at the moment.

But it goes to reason that if you sometimes (even rarely) open-limp in EP with playable, non-premium hands that you sometimes (even rarely) do the same with premium hands.

If players know you can limp in EP with a monster, it makes it easier to limp in with a wider variety of holdings and see more flops (good if you can play post-flop), have less hands taken away from you and makes you less likely to be put on a hand by attentive villains.

Mixing up one's play is good, isn't it?

Against thinking players over a large sample size / long term... yes.


Over a random group of 1/2 players on a Friday night in your local casino... no... its not necessary and you'll be losing value on premium hands.

Why not raise with your playable not-premiums in EP if you want to mix it up in a more profitable manner?

+1

this a fold, easy fold to me actually.

we always say 1/2 players dont look at images too much, if these guys are good thinking 1/2 players i lean closer to a call but i still side with a fold here. what can they put you on really? Trying to get you to fold QQ-AA? The flat is super strong IMO.

also again with the l/rr from EP. if its a std 1/2 game then it can be profitable as long as you are the type of player tht can fold AA postflop.

any level higher then 1/2 i dont think its profitable until you get to the level where people making moves l/rr with rags EP to balance ranges happens. so basically maybe 5/10 and up? In normal 2/5 game l/rr IMO isnt profitable.

If I was sitting in your seat I'd probably be thinking V1 has a draw and only because he took time to think, which I see as weakness, V2 has AJ. At least that's what I'm hoping is the case. Before I come over the top, in a tough spot like this I usually let the player sweat. I'll ask him how much he has behind and try to get a read. I like live play because most of the time a good read is pretty easy to come by. If he shows me more weakness I shove. If he appears calm and collected or other signs of strength I fold. If I'm on the fence I'll usually tell him what I've got and ask him if it's good (heads up ofcourse). I've made many good hero calls/shoves and monster folds this way. In this case with the info presented I've gotta believe I'm beating both players most of the time on this flop with a king in the muck. If V2 has AK or JJ here, then it's just a cooler and without a soul read on V2 I shove.

Can I just clarify, I'm am certainly not that sensitive to having someone take a different viewpoint to mine and I'm in no way hurt. I just truly believe that there are many times when this play is effective. I will also make the same play with AK, K K -99, AQ and the regs don't know whether I am sniping or have a big pair. The recreational or gambling players will often jam over the top with their pair thinking the LRR is merely a squeeze.
People, I'm not saying a LRR is optimal play, but I have no immediate plans to remove it from my game.
Raising from UTG is very often playing your hand face up.

Raising from UTG is more telling than limp reraising...................?

Yawn

I give up

I just can't grasp your concept. Maybe you are on a higher level than me or something but I have no idea how raising UTG is less revealing than limp reraising.

Because when I use this play, I don't just do it with aces, I will make the same play with 99-kk AK, AQ, 10Js.

Playing full ring in a loose game, I find that if I raise UTG to a typical 5-9 x the BB with the above range I can either get no callers or every man and his dog calls.
No callers and I win the blinds, 5 or more callers and I win the pot on the flop with a decent bet or get set mined, or outdrawn multiway, floated off the best hand, being OOP. So to me, playing this way can mean winning a small pot or losing a big one. I have a strong dislike to commit over 1/3 of my stack on the flop and then having to fold or sticking with my big pair and stacking off 100BB's with AA or TPTK for that matter multiway.

I experience the same thing very often in the games I play. What I've discovered, however, is that the actions of the other player happen that way regardless of whether I open or limp. So if i limp, I may get 6 limpers behind me but if I were to open the same hand, I would get 6 callers behind. Or no one was going to call and I either see the flop 2 or 3 handed when I limp with a measly $5-6 pot or I pick up the blinds when I open raise. Bad players often decide to play their hand and limp, then call any raise or the call a raise then call any 3-bet. Most of the time, I'd rather play AA with a larger pot on the flop whether it's head up or multi but not necessarily a 3-bet pot oop because that creates commitment problems.

Post is utterly comical. For starters, thank you for the breakdown, but I'm well aware of the concept of raising the appropriate amount in live NL to thin the field. Thank you also for explaining to me that things in live play are table dependent, but again, since I forgot more yesterday about NL than you will ever learn, I was aware. None of us exactly needs an explanation on basic 1/2 live concepts. My $12 figure was simply thrown out there to make a point.

Your KJ example is dumb because, as I and others have pointed out, these types of hands are liable to enter the pot anyway after the limp/raise is executed.

No idea where you're from, but it isn't standard at all to "rarely" get three to four callers preflop when you open in low stakes NL live.

OK, so what are we beating? Do people send it in here for these bet sizes with 77 on this board in your games? We beat nothing here except a very unlikely and poorly played Jx, or combo draws, which we lose to 2 times in 5 anyway. We do not fare well against a range of Kx/JJ/combo draws.

Sorry I was away for a couple of days and thought i had posted the results to this but i didn't.

Hero folded
villain 2 had Q Q
Villain 1 had K 3
turn 7
river Q

this was my thinking exactly. I figured i could find a better spot and get it in a sure favorite later rather than stack off so deep with just one pair feeling unsure.

I hope Villain 1 rebought...

Let's not be ridiculous. K3 is a premium starting hand. You've got a Broadway as well as a wheel draw, not to mention the fact that it's a lot easier for K3 when it makes two pair to stack AK's one pair than it is the other way around. No one will suspect you are in a 3-bet pot with the King Crab, meaning you have big time implied odds. And, on top of that, it provides the opportunity for someone from 2p2 to go broke against it with an overpair versus "a drooler" on an 833r flop, then post in this forum.

It's funny because it's true.

So comical the people advocating to limp with AA.

Dynamite drop in.

Please, sir, continue to toot your own horn about what a genius player you are whilst advocating one of the most common donk moves in poker. Do you also have a great defense of min raising pre that includes you forgetting more than I'll ever know?

I concur.