Hero: Mid 20s white guy, play in this game every Saturday, have been crushing it for the last month or so, been making some hands and getting paid...bought in for $200, sitting on $1300 to start hand.

Villain: Late 20s white guy, good friend of mine, plays well post flop and tends to have much wider ranges than most 1/2-2/5 players in almost every spot.

On the way down to Chipgate we were having a conversation in the car about playing against friends in the local games that we play in. He basically said that he doesn't adjust his game at all when playing against a friend, because since there are only 3-4 local clubs, and most of the time you're sitting at a table with 5 guys that you play with on a regular basis he just can't afford to not take every spot that comes his way, regardless of who he is playing against. I can understand this position, but him telling me that makes me think that he would be more likely to have air here than any of other winning regs I regularly play with (who tend to stay out of each other's way)

Anyway, on to the hand:

Hero (1300) UTG+2: QQ I am the first limper into the pot. Someone on left makes it 9, fish calls 9, my friend calls 9 in the cutoff, blinds fold. It comes back to me I make it 50 to go, everyone folds except for my friend (who started hand with 500).

Flop (~135) 9 6 2

I lead 60ish into 135, villain calls.

Turn (~255) 3

I check, villain checks.

River (~255) J

I check, villain bets $125, I ???.

I'm curious about thoughts on preflop and all streets as well. I open for a raise in a spot like this almost always, but in this particular game, with these particular players (loose passive pre, overvalue hands postflop, terrible hand reading abilities) I wanted to go for the limp/reraise.

If we end up seeing a flop 6 ways with $12 in the middle, it sucks, but I'm more than happy to release my hand if I don't flop very well. I felt like the likelihood of someone putting in a raise, combined with the likelihood of getting 1 or 2 callers after I limp/reraise makes it a viable option.

Turn: What to do, what to do? Barrel turn and give up river? Is this a spot for triple barreling?

On the river, as played, what do people think of shoving here? I feel like he can only call with K or A AND that he'll try and make this play to take the pot away from us on the river without having one of two cards very often. He is the type of player who would almost never check turn and check river and be happy to split the pot. That being said, I think if I did have A or K I am barreling turn almost always in this spot...but I do not know if V would infer that about me...if I check turn and check/bomb river am I repping anything?

I would bet/fold about $75-$80 on the flop. Makes him think a bit more about calling with a naked club.

Turn seems fine.
River seems like a check/fold here.

Pre seems fine if you told me they were loose aggressive, or tight aggressive, or maniacs or anything else that leads you to think that they will be raising. Or that most hands were going to the flop raised by someone. But you specifically tell me that they are loose/passive. This means that overall they are far too likely to take a flop for cheap (i.e. $2) and not raise. So, too often you are OOP with a hand that doesn't play well on a lot of flops with 4+ players.

As for the river, the check/bomb looks like the nuts (A only) or a bluff. So, if I've got the K/Q/T I'm going to look you up here. Esp given that I've got half my stack committed to the hand already, so I'll be getting better than 3:1 on a call.

I don't like the limp/raise at a loose/passive game. Far too often it will limp around and you end up going to the flop 5+ with a pair. As played, flop lead should be a more, say $80. Save the limp/raise for aggro games where most hands are raised preflop and you can run into wide 3betting ranges.

After turn this is generally a check/fold. Shoving river is an interesting steal, but it depends entirely on metagame history with villain. If you almost always betting Ac/Kc on turn, I wouldn't try it. You have enough history with this villain that he should be aware that your range on turn is mostly air. He should check his Ac/Kc behind and aim for exactly this sort of crying call on river. A low club or other winning hand should check behind a lot because they have showdown value but can't get called by worse and might get raised. So villain's range is probably fairly strong here, and it could only be worth trying if you can represent the Ac and would be fairly marginal even then.

Were you 1300 effective? I assume not but there is no other info. Don't you think he bets Ac Kc Qc and all air? I am assuming he bets his whole range other than 3c-Tc. I probably just fold but if maybe a shove is worth it if he only has like 200 more or something idk tho.

My description of loose passive was not entirely accurate. The game consists of basically two groups: a few nut peddlers and a higher concentration of aggressive spewtards with a lot of money to burn.

To give you an example, if somebody opened to 15 it would not be uncommon to see any of the spewtards flat with hands any connected cards (23s, sure, why not), 1 gappers, suited 2 gappers, any ace, any pair, any broadways but at the same time there is basically nobody in the game that would see a raise to 15, a few calls, and then decide to 3b wide IP. People probably don't do this because they know how sticky everybody plays and that in this game in particular generally you are going to showdown and you need to make some kind of hand to win. So they are loose, and they are passive, but there are few limped pots and very few 3b pots. If I had to guess I'd say the breakdown was like 15-20% limped pots / 70-75% raised pots / < 5% 3b+ pots...

We were 500 effective. Given how shallow he'd be after betting river I don't know how much I like shoving there. I could even see him calling without a club for a chop in some instances.

Then open to $20, pot most flops, profit.

Don't l/rr. And fold river obv

Im betting turn every time. Checking turn is bad and a mistake.

I don't either like I said i just fold.

If I bet turn, and get flatted, and the river card is the same would you suggest firing a third bullet or giving up?

Raise pre, bet flop, cf turn and cf river

+1

Raise pre 4sure, I might check flop here to control pot size and then bet turn when he checks behind. As played I'm not making a play on river.

Board runout was just extremely bad for you in this spot and I'd have no qualms c/f the turn or river here. Villain's range for calling the 3b I'm assuming is at least some non-premium PPs and weighted towards broadway hands. His range for floating the flop would at the very least be a broadway club or a set. Given his bet sizing on the river it looks like a solid value bet here and I think c/r shoving would be burning money in this spot.

The problem arises when we check flop and he doesn't check behind, and then we go to the turn in a total guessing game on a bad board that can easily get worse. That's why I think betting flop is preferable (and of course the value we gain from it)

This is the line that I took. The street that I still struggle with is the turn. Is there value in double barreling? Are there any hands that he can call flop bet and then fold turn? TT or JJ with no club maybe? Seems like there are very few hands he gets to the turn and then folds.

The other thing I'm wondering about now is if I should just eliminate limp/raising from my game entirely. I thought that this situation was ideal for it, and it was met with little fanfare from this board.

But then again, I took the same line again tonight and it worked out well. Had about 700 effective in a different 1/2 game...limp in UTG+1, loose aggressive fish bumps it to 15, three callers, I make it 150...he goes all in for 15 on top. I call he has AQ and I fade. Maybe I'm just being results oriented...but in some of these games where you can expect a raise more often than not, and you can take a line that turns your hand face up and you still get action...seems +EV.

Which is why you dont want to bet without a decent club here on the turn