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Old 11-10-2013, 03:06 AM   #1
yellowbastard
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1-2 NL - QJs - RVR spot against loose player

My opponent is a very loose aggressive player playing way too many hands. In an earlier session I opened UTG with AQs, he calls OTB (KT3) flop I bet he calls, turn 2, check check, RVR 7 I cf he shows T7o. He is super loose but doesn't seem totally ******ed. If he thinks he is beat he is capable of folding.

Stacks
Hero: $400
Villain: $250

Preflop:
MP limps, villain MP limps, hero raises from HJ with QJ to $15, everyone folds and both limpers call

Flop: (QJ2) (pot=$48)
checks to hero who bets $30, villain calls $30

Turn: (QJ2) (3) (pot=$108)
villain checks, hero bets $50, villain calls $50

RVR: (QJ2) (3) (K) (pot=$208)
villain checks with $155 behind, hero ???
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Old 11-10-2013, 03:18 AM   #2
Duke0424
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Bet more on turn

Would he check river with a hand like KQ/KJ? Would he call flop with AT?

The river card is kind of bad for you. You lose value from KQ. I don't know what else pays you off now besides AQ. KT?

If he's tricky enough to check KQ/KJ/AT, Id check this back
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Old 11-10-2013, 03:26 AM   #3
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Re: 1-2 NL - QJs - RVR spot against loose player

I think he's calling down with one pair. I'd bet 50 for value and insta-call a shove, and if he's awesome enough to have 10-9 and check the river, I guess he got me good.
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Old 11-10-2013, 03:28 AM   #4
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Re: 1-2 NL - QJs - RVR spot against loose player

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke0424 View Post
Bet more on turn

Would he check river with a hand like KQ/KJ? Would he call flop with AT?

The river card is kind of bad for you. You lose value from KQ. I don't know what else pays you off now besides AQ. KT?

If he's tricky enough to check KQ/KJ/AT, Id check this back
I don't think he calls the flop and turn with AT unless it is specifically AdTd. He might be tricky enough to check some of those hands KQ, KJ, T9 ect... KT is really the only thing I can think of that pays us off. Maybe a hand like Q7s or something like that but the K on the RVR is going to make it difficult for him to call.


How much do you bet on the turn and why?
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Old 11-10-2013, 03:42 AM   #5
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Yea if you think he can check the top of his range to you and the only hand that pays you off is KT, then its probably fine to check back.

I'd bet $65-75 on the turn to get value from AQ, KQ, AJ maybe, FDs that he picked up, straight draws
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Old 11-10-2013, 03:44 AM   #6
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Re: 1-2 NL - QJs - RVR spot against loose player

I was thinking the same thing when I played the hand but I also thought there were probably a lot of crappy Jx type hands in his range that he would check and call with OTT. The bigger bet size does make since though.
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Old 11-10-2013, 04:10 AM   #7
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Re: 1-2 NL - QJs - RVR spot against loose player

Honestly this is a spot that we have so much showdown value, why lose it? We invested $95 to the pot, so if we lose and he trap-checked us, we let him know it didn't work. If he was checking a one pair hand we beat, we aren't getting any value unless he thinks you are triple-barreling, but really?

Just take the pot, it's a big one as far as the game is concerned, so let's add the $200 to our stack without any consequence.

If you want more value out of the hand, you might be losing over 50% of your stack with your value. You might even give the "alright, just in case" speech to go along with your check. Then if he does have us beat, you show the table that you don't over-value two pair.
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Old 11-10-2013, 06:17 AM   #8
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Re: 1-2 NL - QJs - RVR spot against loose player

Thin. Value. Bet.

If you don't own yourself sometimes you aren't doing it enough.
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Old 11-10-2013, 08:55 AM   #9
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1/2 PSB.

Make it easy for him to call all-in. Stay consistent with your pattern of betting about 1/2 put.
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Old 11-10-2013, 09:27 AM   #10
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Re: 1-2 NL - QJs - RVR spot against loose player

I think play up until the turn is good. I would bet around $75-$85 on the turn. This sets up a river shove pretty easily. As played we need to think about what his turn continuing range is. This is what I think a loose aggressive player will continue with:

KTs+, KJo+, Q10s+, QJs, QJo, J10s, J10o,109s...

I believe a loose aggressive player is capable of calling with a Jx as well as top pair type hand. The river K is kind of scary because it does complete the straight and a better two pair. With the range I assigned we are better than 23 combos and lose to 13 combos (if my math is correct). If we take the J10s and J10o combos out of the range we beat 15 combos and lose to 13 combos.

I think this is a thin spot however I would bet between $100-$110 and if he pushes all in its an easy call at this point.
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Old 11-10-2013, 10:11 AM   #11
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Re: 1-2 NL - QJs - RVR spot against loose player

Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowbastard View Post
My opponent is a very loose aggressive player playing way too many hands. In an earlier session I opened UTG with AQs, he calls OTB (KT3) flop I bet he calls, turn 2, check check, RVR 7 I cf he shows T7o. He is super loose but doesn't seem totally ******ed. If he thinks he is beat he is capable of folding.

Stacks
Hero: $400
Villain: $250

Preflop:
MP limps, villain MP limps, hero raises from HJ with QJ to $15, everyone folds and both limpers call

Flop: (QJ2) (pot=$48)
checks to hero who bets $30, villain calls $30

Turn: (QJ2) (3) (pot=$108)
villain checks, hero bets $50, villain calls $50

RVR: (QJ2) (3) (K) (pot=$208)
villain checks with $155 behind, hero ???
$40 flop
$70 turn
ship river
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Old 11-10-2013, 04:55 PM   #12
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Re: 1-2 NL - QJs - RVR spot against loose player

Quote:
Originally Posted by endodocdc View Post
$40 flop
$70 turn
ship river
What calling hands does villain have OTR that we beat? How much of his range consists of these hands?
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Old 11-10-2013, 06:54 PM   #13
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Re: 1-2 NL - QJs - RVR spot against loose player

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Originally Posted by yellowbastard View Post
What calling hands does villain have OTR that we beat? How much of his range consists of these hands?

Based on the info you provided, any Qx, most Jx, KT, K9, Q2, J2, are in his range

He will have some busted draws that won't call and some str8 draws/better 2pair that got there and we lose to. However, the point given your description, this villain is capable of showing up with a lot of weaker value hands and we should bet size each street in order to make river shove trivial.
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Old 11-10-2013, 07:13 PM   #14
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Re: 1-2 NL - QJs - RVR spot against loose player

Quote:
Originally Posted by endodocdc View Post
Based on the info you provided, any Qx, most Jx, KT, K9, Q2, J2, are in his range

He will have some busted draws that won't call and some str8 draws/better 2pair that got there and we lose to. However, the point given your description, this villain is capable of showing up with a lot of weaker value hands and we should bet size each street in order to make river shove trivial.
I agree. Before making any move try and decide how that will effect the next two or three steps so you don't end up with tough decisions.

As played I think a flush or straight draw with the king will easily call a value bet on the river. KQ seems like he would have raised the flop.
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Old 11-10-2013, 07:26 PM   #15
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Re: 1-2 NL - QJs - RVR spot against loose player

I could see making a thin value bet with this online - maybe. Live, without an incredibly reliable read? Never. Check it back and be happy with your big pot.
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Old 11-11-2013, 01:45 AM   #16
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Re: 1-2 NL - QJs - RVR spot against loose player

vs described villain I think the issue here is on the turn. Its a drawy board and as mentioned you want value from his worse hands and to set up the river shove. As is stacks on the river are alittle awkward. Those saying to value bet and to "well if he shoves just snap call/call" I'm really not following. I mean yea the pot odds would be very good but I can't think of many players who are going to check/raise with worse. In fact I think if he ships your almost never good calling would just be burning money.

I like a bet of like $75 as played. I range most of his hands are stuff like strong jacks and decent queens and he's not a complete idiot so I wouldn't want to bet more because he might find a fold and $75 q10,q9,aj,10j,jx which I think is a lot of what he has will pay you off. You could make it more I guesse but I wouldn't go over $100 for sure.

btw does he ever check 910 in this spot?
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Old 11-11-2013, 02:21 AM   #17
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Re: 1-2 NL - QJs - RVR spot against loose player

I would expect him to bet T9 in this spot but it is not impossible that he checks it. The guy is actually a really smart veterinarian and was talking earlier about how he wants to go back to school and be a people doctor. He really likes to gamble and play a lot of hands and it is rumored that he ran $300 up to $21k in a 1-2 NLHE private game in one night.
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Old 11-11-2013, 03:31 AM   #18
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Re: 1-2 NL - QJs - RVR spot against loose player

KQ, KJ, AT, T9 got there. AK, KT we can get river value from. And there are a bunch that somehow got here and still have air and there's no chance we get any value, and some hands like JT that fold now. I'm probably checking it back. There are thin value spots to go for, I don't think this is one of them.

I would have bet the turn bigger for two reasons. From hands like KQ, AQ we can get more value. And from broadway draw cards or diamonds, the turn is the final street of value when they brick the river.
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Old 11-11-2013, 03:44 AM   #19
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Re: 1-2 NL - QJs - RVR spot against loose player

bet more on turn.

too thin for me. I mean we are hoping he somehow is going to pay us off with AQ or Q10 here or that we c/c the whole way down with AK and he played it passive preflop as well?

going off of OPs description, Villain isnt a station ******, he did say he knows when hes beat.

only possible hand I see we can get some value is K10 and maybe K9dd.
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Old 02-07-2014, 05:22 PM   #20
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Re: 1-2 NL - QJs - RVR spot against loose player

pre flop and flop is perfect bet sizing. turn i'd bet $60 to charge draws, get value, and still encourage draws to call. river is a fold. you only beat a bluff only he has KT. but even with KT, id expect him to check call a lot. river is close but probably a bet fold if he checks. i dont see him checking a straight so only hands that really beat you are scared KQ, KJ if he checks and you can get looked up by KT, K9, AQ, or possible worse
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Old 02-07-2014, 05:47 PM   #21
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limp pre. I'm not a huge fan of raising this hand over limpers bc they almost never fold and you are ending up playing a bloated pot with QJ, it being suited does help your cause. As played I bet river because I think the only hands that K helps V is KJ KQ.
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Old 02-07-2014, 05:48 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beauvanlaanen View Post
limp pre. I'm not a huge fan of raising this hand over limpers bc they almost never fold and you are ending up playing a bloated pot with QJ, it being suited does help your cause. As played I bet river because I think the only hands that K helps V is KJ KQ.
I forgot T9, also a possibility for V.
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Old 02-07-2014, 05:56 PM   #23
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Check back, see his cards, drag pot and make mental note of how he played his holdings.
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Old 02-07-2014, 06:11 PM   #24
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Re: 1-2 NL - QJs - RVR spot against loose player

Grunch

I would bet more on the turn here for value, somewhere between 75-95 IMO.

As played, check it back. KQ, KJ, maybe Ad Td, slow played deuces, 9d Td all got there and I don't think he is calling a shove with anything worse than that. Yeah shoving just seems unnecessary at this point.
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