I'll try not to butcher this one like I did the previous one... lol.

Hero: ($1000) Cutoff - Well known winner in the game, also running good.
Villain 1: ($500) UTG - Older white guy. I have limited history with him, but he is generally very tight and conservative.
Villain 2: ($55) Button - Loose aggressive, sitting on a short stack looking to get it in ASAP.

Villain 1 raises UTG to $12. Folds to Hero who flats with QQ.

I flat for two reasons:

1) I pickup a Pre Flop read that Villain 2 is likely to jam in his $55.
2) Villain 1 is very tight, conservative. I range Villain 1 at TT-AA, AK, and Tens is probably generous.

So if V2 jams it reopens the betting and I'll get to see what V1 does with this, versus me 3 betting to $40, V2 jamming and V1 flatting the $55 closing the betting. If he 4bets I can shrink his range to AA & KK and likely just fold.

Correct thought process?

After I call $12, as suspected V2 jams for $55; V1 flats. $125 in pot. Hero?

I like the pre flop flat if you think V2 is jamming and would fold if you 3bet. But if you think V2 will push anyway, why not 3bet to 55 so he won't have the chance to reopen the betting, and you get the initiative?

The preflop flat from a "tight, conservative" V1 with you left to act is very strong IMO. Unless you think he could play small/mid pocket pairs this way (i.e. set-mining hoping you would flat), his range is JJ+, AK (we have blockers so not likely AQ).

I would flat and fold if he bets into an A, K or J. Call flop and re-evaluate turn if it is all low cards.

I certainly don't think jamming pre is worth it... V1 is never calling with worse except MAYBE AK, and risking $500 to win $110 doesn't make sense to me.

Fold pre seems too weak. At this point we are getting set-mining odds if the Q hits since V1 likely to stack off with AA/KK.

I think your thought process is right on. Now make it $175 and fold to a jam. Expect him to mutter and fold way more often than not.

Edit: I like this line because I don't think he ever has KK or QQ after flatting the $55. The villains I play with who fit that description can't get their money in fast enough with those hands here, leaving them with a shoving range of exactly AA, if they have one at all.

Only issue is if Villain calls we are committed after any decent-sized cbet.

Pre is good.

Make it $150.
Bet the flop and shove the turn for value.

I expect you to be ahead here 90% of the time.

The fact that he didn't shove when the short stack reopens the betting makes me think we are likely ahead here (ahead of AK, JJ, and TT).

I think we should raise an amount he will likely call. I like 115 more ($170 total). This gives him incorrect set mining odds and sets up a less than PSB shove on the flop.

I'm currently wondering if we could make him fold AK on a K high flop, putting us on AA or KK only. *steeples fingers* Seems unlikely, but I haven't been in this spot often enough. Depends a lot on our OMCs thinking/mubsy tendencies. If this were the case I'd prefer a close to min-bet to give us some bluffing room.

Pretty standard flat pre against a tight raiser. As played I think flatting the shorties shove is way better than 4betting. PFR can still have KK+. And when we 4bet , we push out all worse hands from tight players. Flat, play post flop. Usually call flop on low boards and fold turn
If we know almost certainly villain will never flat shorties shove with KK+, then 4betting is fine. But realistically this is a great spot to flat KK+.

4betting tiny to $115 is enough to deny set mining odds (plus 43% of the time an ace or king flops anyways so you won't be stacking QQ which means in reality he would never like 14:1 to set mine against QQ). Question is will he fold TT, JJ, AQ to tiny 4bet?

My thoughts as well for this villain. I don't think he's savvy enough to flat here with AA or KK.

Based on my read above, I 4-bet to $255 and he snap shoved on me for another $253. I call and we race off AK vs QQ. AK whiffs and I scoop.

Criticisms?

Hmm. If I was V1, I would have flatted $55 pre w AA/KK, I want to play a big pot against H. $165 in pot, enough in the pot to play for stacks post flop without scaring H away. Am I making a mistake?

And I wouldn't have 4-bet w QQ if I was H either because of the tight read. I guess I'm screwing this all up. After H's 4-bet, I would suspect a squeeze, mid-to-high pocket pair trying to get heads up vs. V2 and take my dead money.

Thinking about this hand gave me a headache.

Thats what you would do yes. But v1 is not you. Far from it. He was the probably the biggest fish in the game.

Hard to tell. All I knew about him was he was tight/conservative. 😉

And FWIW, just want to clarify, I wasn't saying the way you played gave me a headache or anything. The hand gave me a headache because everyone suggested playing it different that I would have and their thinking was more accurate than mine.

No worries. I didnt take any offense. I enjoy the feedback to see how others might play this hand differently.

Still thinking about this hand. Obviously, your read was correct and I'm glad you won the hand. What hand did you think V had when he shoved over your 4-bet?

I was still pretty confident he had AK or JJ and was spazzing with no thought of what I had. Pretty sure the fact I had QQ was very well concealed, but he is a level one thinker anyway. "ZOMG I have AK!"

I asked him if he had Aces and he gave a sheepsih grin that reaffirmed my read.

Is he tight enough to just call the shove with KK or tricky enough to just call it with AA or KK?

I believe your thought process was fine in flat calling the initial raise. This deep, and in position, I think calling the $55 is acceptable.

However, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

What if you 3-bet to 32, Button shoves for 55, and UTG calls? Then the betting is open, and you're free to make it 145, assuming you're not being tarped.

I could go either way on this one.

Doesn't that kind of depend on what the flop and turn are?

I don't mind it except that it reveals a bit about the strength of my hand to both Villains.

Goodness gracious. That's a huge 4-bet! Why so much?

That is a truly awful play on his part with AK, IMO. You've put a huge neon sign out in your front yard that reads, "I'M POT-COMMITTED!" He should be aware that if a consistent winning player commits 250 big blinds before the flop, AK is no good and probably murdered.

Obviously you got a fine result, despite one hell of a preflop sweat for a cash game. If I had been in your spot, I probably would have 4-bet to 145 and vomit-folded to his 5-bet/shove. So hooray for results!

I'm surprised a tight and conservative old man would spazz out like this with AK, but sometimes the elderly suddenly lose a couple of their marbles.

Fair enough. If you think the short stack may wait for a better spot when he sees a 3-bet in front of him, then your method is certainly the way to go.

He wasn't that old. Maybe 50. I truly believe I have a full of $hit image at the table, but mostly he's just a level 1 thinker... "ZOMG I have AK! What's this idiot think he's doing raising me!? I'm arr in!"

Yes, but we like a lot of flops.

Ha, I need one of those. I gotta get some contacts that make it look like I have a lazy eye or something… =)