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<img / NL: King Trips on the River <img / NL: King Trips on the River

12-29-2013 , 01:25 PM
$200 eff. Loose-passive but tightish postflop table. 5 players including me to the flop in a limped pot. I limped KJs in CO.

Flop: Axx rainbow Pot ~$10 all check.
Turn: K checked to me and I'm last to act. I bet $5 and get 1 caller, a nit.
River: K checked to me. I bet $10.

Nit makes it $20. I make it $60. Nit calls and shows KQo.

Was my river 4-bet bad?
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12-29-2013 , 01:39 PM
Yes.

It's too late to get too much value here. While there are plenty of possible holdings for V given the action, his raise is almost always a Kx hand. Depending on what the rest of the flop was that gives 3 Kx X cards to a boat, and KQ ahead of us.

I would just flat here, as played.

Next time either A) make a PFR, B) bet the flop, C) Bet more on the turn, or D) all or 2/3 of the above.
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12-29-2013 , 01:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trucdouf
Yes.

It's too late to get too much value here. While there are plenty of possible holdings for V given the action, his raise is almost always a Kx hand. Depending on what the rest of the flop was that gives 3 Kx X cards to a boat, and KQ ahead of us.

I would just flat here, as played.

Next time either A) make a PFR, B) bet the flop, C) Bet more on the turn, or D) all or 2/3 of the above.
Basically only one Kx beats us and that is KQ. AK and KK can be discounted. What else are we afraid of? Boats? Also his line doesn't make sense, even for a nit. Not bet the K on the turn (ok fine he's a nit) but then check trips on the river? Now that's a little too much even for a nit.

Overall, feels a bit too nitty to just flat there. I raised with the intention of folding to a 5-bet. If this was bad, I'm wondering what are you raising for value on the river? Only the nuts?

Last edited by Olaff; 12-29-2013 at 01:49 PM.
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12-29-2013 , 02:01 PM
vs a nit, yes it's very bad. It was a limped pot multi way. What do you think he's calling you with that you beat? It would be 10K and that's it. Now imagine if you got aggressive at this passive table and raise to 15 pre, then followed up with a c bet? You would of won the pot on the flop. Try not to get into the passive routine with the rest of the table. Be aggressive and win pots with out show down.
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12-29-2013 , 02:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olaff
Basically only one Kx beats us and that is KQ. AK and KK can be discounted. What else are we afraid of? Boats? Also his line doesn't make sense, even for a nit. Not bet the K on the turn (ok fine he's a nit) but then check trips on the river? Now that's a little too much even for a nit.

Overall, feels a bit too nitty to just flat there. I raised with the intention of folding to a 5-bet. If this was bad, I'm wondering what are you raising for value on the river? Only the nuts?
Key is the second paragraph. He's not going to make a 5bet OTR. I would treat his minraise as a 5bet and just slide your thinking up a few bets.

There isn't much to raise here OTR. I'd be kicking myself for not raising PF, OTF. At the river I'm thinking ok lost lots of value, no point trying to make it up here.
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12-29-2013 , 02:47 PM
The fact nobody picks up on the fact that op never 4bet river proves how bad most players on here are.

3bet is fine but make it 50-55
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12-29-2013 , 02:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olaff
his line doesn't make sense, even for a nit. Not bet the K on the turn (ok fine he's a nit) but then check trips on the river? Now that's a little too much even for a nit.
Your line doesn't make sense either. You beat passive, nitty tables with a lot of raising in position with hands like KJ. Instead of stewing over losing this hand, you could have picked up a half a dozen pots by raising then c-betting. Better return with less risk.
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12-29-2013 , 02:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbra Streisand
The fact nobody picks up on the fact that op never 4bet river proves how bad most players on here are.

3bet is fine but make it 50-55
I noticed the slip in nomenclature also.

The river $10 bet is the first bet (on this street).
The min-raise to $20 is the second bet.
The OP's re-raise to $60 is the third bet, aka 3-bet/3!

However, that isn't the point of the thread, nor does it make those that have responded "bad" for not pointing it out.

I would have asked myself what V could be raising me with here when he min-raises on the river. And remember, most min-raises on the river are the nuts at this level. Obviously we know the results and he didn't have the "nuts" but effectively the same.

So to the OP, yes, the re-raise on the river was bad, but for $10 more I would've called expecting to be shown Kx most of the time and a majority of the time being beat.
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12-29-2013 , 03:03 PM
Didn't think the terminology is all that important but what ever. And reraising a min check raise on the river from a nit is bad I don't care what anyone says.
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12-29-2013 , 03:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbra Streisand
The fact nobody picks up on the fact that op never 4bet river proves how bad most players on here are.

3bet is fine but make it 50-55
Please explain why my re-raise was fine (especially since the majority of posters seem to think it was not fine at all).
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12-29-2013 , 04:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbra Streisand
The fact nobody picks up on the fact that op never 4bet river proves how bad most players on here are.

3bet is fine but make it 50-55
...... cool observation barbra
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01-02-2014 , 09:29 PM
So everyone except Barbra thinks my 3-bet was bad and Barbra won't explain why it wasn't. Great I'd really appreciate her reasoning.
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01-02-2014 , 09:47 PM
Yes. Only getting called by a K.
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01-03-2014 , 03:34 AM
As tony g says never over play king jack
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