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Old 04-08-2014, 12:22 AM   #1
kenshi3
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1/2 NL K4hh shove on flush draw

Table is generally very loose, at least 2+ limps every round, hero is seen as young asian nit player, started with $200 and refilled $100 after losing a couple cbets and decent sized pots. Hero has $150 stack left atm, and just recently shoved all in on an unknown to just entered table and raised 25 on first hand.

Villain is a brown dad who just lost his stack with AQ on a 2 3 5 board against another asian dad whos the biggest winning player at the table who took him out with a straight and he had Ace high and all in'd and got called. Rebought has $200

Villain in MP raises to 12, Hero on button with K4 calls, BB calls.

Flop comes

357

BB cbets 20, Villain reraises to 75, Hero shoves. BB folds, Villain Calls.

I know you're supposed to fold this pre-flop but I had a feeling i was gonna hit some hearts...
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Old 04-08-2014, 01:35 AM   #2
eldiesel
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Re: 1/2 NL K4hh shove on flush draw

There are two scenarios where this isn't that bad of a move.

1) If you had the nfd, because you're drawing live and to the nuts.

2) If you had a fd with the 7h. Because you might not have the best heart draw, but the pair means that V would need to hit a better pair or the 7 remaining hearts to win. It's near a coinflip at that point.

But you could be up against A7hh and have 3 outs.

Fold pre, AP fold flop. Given the call pre, you're in the hand to flop a flush or flop the nfd. Neither happened.
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Old 04-08-2014, 01:45 AM   #3
OSUTexan
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Re: 1/2 NL K4hh shove on flush draw

Quote:
Originally Posted by eldiesel View Post
There are two scenarios where this isn't that bad of a move.

1) If you had the nfd, because you're drawing live and to the nuts.

2) If you had a fd with the 7h. Because you might not have the best heart draw, but the pair means that V would need to hit a better pair or the 7 remaining hearts to win. It's near a coinflip at that point.

But you could be up against A7hh and have 3 outs.

Fold pre, AP fold flop. Given the call pre, you're in the hand to flop a flush or flop the nfd. Neither happened.
+1 on everything said
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Old 04-08-2014, 01:54 AM   #4
Study Ace
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Re: 1/2 NL K4hh shove on flush draw

Flush and straight outs make you have good equity vs an overpair.

However you have almost no fold equity and will be in pretty bad shape vs the nfd.

Also, what would BB donk out with?

I would fold.

However if BB check and V led out for 30$, I would probably shove
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Old 04-08-2014, 02:11 AM   #5
eldiesel
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Re: 1/2 NL K4hh shove on flush draw

Didn't notice the sd. Doesn't change much though. I wouldn't have those 3 6's be a determining factor.
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Old 04-08-2014, 02:33 AM   #6
TheCake
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Re: 1/2 NL K4hh shove on flush draw

Well if the flush is live and the K can give you outs I like the shove really cause you will get called and your doing pretty good against a ton of o e pair hand's that dont contain a K.

3+9+3 I like it
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Old 04-08-2014, 03:39 AM   #7
kenshi3
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Re: 1/2 NL K4hh shove on flush draw

Thanks for reply, Villain showed set of pocket 7s on a 3 5 7 2 4 board no flush. What my thought process was, I knew chances of the A heart is little, so I was pretty much putting him on overpair, turned out to be set of 7s, which is close enough, if I had hit any heart, it woulda been a turning point, but nope, better luck next time.
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Old 04-08-2014, 02:20 PM   #8
MIB211
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Re: 1/2 NL K4hh shove on flush draw

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshi3 View Post
Thanks for reply, Villain showed set of pocket 7s on a 3 5 7 2 4 board no flush. What my thought process was, I knew chances of the A heart is little, so I was pretty much putting him on overpair, turned out to be set of 7s, which is close enough, if I had hit any heart, it woulda been a turning point, but nope, better luck next time.
You're in a much worse spot v. a set of 7s than you would be v. an overpair. Against an overpair less than a K, you're actually a slight favorite, since you have up to 15 outs (any heart, the 3 non-heart 6s and the 3 non-heart Ks), and V doesn't have any redraws really against the flush or straight. Against a set of 7s, you're about a 2:1 underdog, since you're Ks are no good and V has redraws to a boat even if you make a flush or straight.
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Old 04-08-2014, 04:09 PM   #9
Mr_Doomed
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Re: 1/2 NL K4hh shove on flush draw

Fold pre ur stack size isn't large enough to make the call pre.
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Old 04-08-2014, 04:56 PM   #10
InTheDark
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Re: 1/2 NL K4hh shove on flush draw

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Originally Posted by kenshi3 View Post
...but I had a feeling i was gonna hit some hearts...
Put that in the next thread title and save us all some time.
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:01 PM   #11
HappyLuckBox
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Re: 1/2 NL K4hh shove on flush draw

Um wtf fold pre

You had a feeling you were going to hit some hearts? What does that even mean??
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:11 PM   #12
UCDLaCrosse
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Re: 1/2 NL K4hh shove on flush draw

Sometimes I have a feeling Im going to stack a fish.

Fold pre buddy. Save the 12$ for when you have 33 or 55
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:18 PM   #13
TheGramuel
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Re: 1/2 NL K4hh shove on flush draw

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyLuckBox View Post
Um wtf fold pre

You had a feeling you were going to hit some hearts? What does that even mean??
Pretty obvious he was levelling...

**edit**

I hope

/self-level
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Old 04-08-2014, 07:02 PM   #14
Angrist
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Re: 1/2 NL K4hh shove on flush draw

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshi3 View Post
Table is generally very loose, at least 2+ limps every round, hero is seen as young asian nit player, started with $200 and refilled $100 after losing a couple cbets and decent sized pots. Hero has $150 stack left atm, and just recently shoved all in on an unknown to just entered table and raised 25 on first hand.

Villain is a brown dad who just lost his stack with AQ on a 2 3 5 board against another asian dad whos the biggest winning player at the table who took him out with a straight and he had Ace high and all in'd and got called. Rebought has $200

Villain in MP raises to 12, Hero on button with K4 calls, BB calls.

Flop comes

357

BB cbets 20, Villain reraises to 75, Hero shoves. BB folds, Villain Calls.

I know you're supposed to fold this pre-flop but I had a feeling i was gonna hit some hearts...
:grunch:

From the title alone I'm pretty sure you should be folding preflop.

2+ limps is pretty normal for a $1/2 game, not particularly looser than normal.

I've never met a young asian nit at the tables. I doubt you have that image, especially if you're making c-bets. You might have an aggro image, like most young asians. But whether it's good or bad aggro is tough to say at this point. Especially after shipping on some rando guy's first hand. Nits don't do that.


I have no idea how that villain history forms a sentence. How deep were they when this happened?

Ah ... here we are. Fold your hand preflop. Done.

OR, if you *really* think you can bluff the guy 3-bet him. But mostly just fold.

I don't think you ever have any fold equity shipping $185 after he re-raises that flop. Whatever he has the money is going in. And you're probably behind. So pretty much an awful place to shove.

"a feeling i was gonna hit some hearts" ... please, come sit at my table any time.
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Old 04-08-2014, 08:33 PM   #15
rksnake11
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I wanted to post but Angrist pretty much said it exactly as I would. Bravo. Could not have said it better than Angrist.
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