Hey guys! I play online but trying to learn live so hopefully you will see more posts from me.

This is my first hand I recorded on a notepad for review

Ok so I made a very bad river call in this hand

(The river... fold it.)

But I'm more concerned with how much I butchered the hand before the river I didn't want to bloat the pot with an over pair but I'm not sure what I should have done.

8 players UTG limps, folds to me in the co, I have AA I make it 7 (should I make it 10 or 8?)

Button calls, sb calls utg calls, flop

247

UTG checks I make it 15$ (should I go bigger?) button calls sb calls

Turn brings 6 completing the badugi board, sb checks I make it 20$ (again should I go bigger?)

River comes 9, sb donks 85$ and I make a ******ed call.

I was furious with myself after this hand I'm not going to ever beat live playing like this but I'm new so I just need to be more patient and not tilt.


Aside from the bad call I think there is a lot of ways I could have played this hand much better.

200$ is "a lot" of money to me I'm a 50nl 6 max online winner (on a weak site) so this call is very beneath my level of play.



thanks,


Zy

Raise 10-12 pre. Check turn. Call river of V leads or bet river if V checks. Tough to go for 3 streets with one pair...

1. Raise to $12-15 after UTG limps

2. Assuming everyone still called $12 and not knowing anything about your V's and their ranges, I'd bet $30 on the flop (2/3 PSB) as its likely some of your V's called your tiny PF raise with hands like 56, 67, 78 and you can't give them a good price to draw out on you

Hard to give any advice past that point since everything happened differently.

Bet/raise more at every point. If you raise 10 pot is 40 on the flop. Bet 30. Then the pot is 130 ott. Bet 90. Then fold or check river. This is not that bad of a board for AA. You will do well in the long run if you blast the pot at every opportunity with AA as long as the board is safe.

When posting hands stack sizes and reads on villains matters.

At 1/2 optimal preflop sizing is very table/situation dependent. Here you have one EP limper, but are not on the button and can be stuck OOP post flop. I like $12-$15 and might go more if I know the table is very loose or effective stacks are deep. With more limpers in front, $12 is the least I would go and the sky is the limit. I've been at 1/2 tables where I would go $25/$30 and still get multiple callers. I'm only going less then $12 if the table is tight and I know the limper is the sort to limp/fold a lot.

Flop is dry, but I like a little bigger bet of $20. You should be aiming 2/3 to 3/4 of pot here. You will get calls from worse, you have 3 villains and there are some low draws you need to worry about. Turn is a check after you get two calls and get a bad card for the situation.

One of the more difficult transitions for a 6 max on line player to live 1/2 is that the show down hand values are just much higher with the 3-4 extra players live. People will see a flop with a wide range, but will only continue with a narrow range.

PF, I'd raise to 12. This is one of the key differences between live and online. Online, they are looking at the magnitude of your bet. Live, the matter of putting in 2 red chips makes it easy for them to call. And with aces, you want to make it easy to call when you have a big lead.

I'd bet more on the flop and turn because many weaker hands can call, but you need to learn that the donk on the river is going to be a strong hand. People don't bluff into the pf raiser after he bets the flop and turn with a weak holding.

Welcome on board and I hope to see more of you.

Where I play, a relatively standard pre flop open is $10-$12. When considering my opening bet size pre, I also consider how many limpers are in the pot. Give or take, I'm thinking I start at $12, and add a BB for each limper. This can be adjusted for hand strength, and table conditions, yet generally that's a pretty good benchmark to start with. So here, if I'm understanding you correctly, we have 8 limps to you in the cutoff.

If that's correct, I'd be thinking $28 pre, 1 BB + $12 for every limper, and then adjust for table conditions and "stickiness" of limpers. If the table is "standard" with stickiness, I'd adjust to $18-$20. If very sticky, then seriously I'd go $28 anticipating at least 1 call. That may sound absurdly high, yet the goal in my mind is to get one caller, or no callers. And, at least where I play, set-miners (mostly 66+) and AK will call.

AA is great heads up, even 3 way. 4 way it starts to get cumbersome.

4 way, maybe bump it up just a bit. Kind of nitpicky but I'd go $25 into $38. They're still gonna call IMO.


I'd go $55 into $83. No FD is shaping up, but the board is straightening out, and overpairs to the board still call mostly IMO.

Man, now that is weird. Check call, check call, donk, is usually the supreme nuts. Wondering though if V could do this with TT+? Feels like 99 to me. I could be way off, but that line from V is so strong I'm thinking my AA just shrank hard. What are we beating that takes that line?

Don't be too hard on yourself, we're all here to help each other, and learn. Good hand to post IMO.

^ I think he meant there were 8 players at the table. UTG (first to act) limped, folds in between UTG and Hero in CO who raised to $7, and then Button, SB and UTG call for a $27 pot on the flop after rake.

Ahh, gotchya. If that's the case, I'd go $14 ($12 + 1 limper) Pre Flop, maybe as low as $10, but probably not less than $10. Again, this is for where I play, but I will say this.. When someone makes it $7, or $5 straight, they're gonna have to play the whole table. Only the most disciplined players fold for just a few dollars more.

The river is a fold because he has nothing that would want to lead here that didn't improve. It makes no sense for him to.

Preflop needs to be huge.

anywhere between 12 - 17 preflop depending on table dynamics

3/4 pot or pot on flop

then prob like 2/3 pot on turn depending on action

as played fold river

don't play live 1/2 if 200 is "a lot" of money to you

Your sizing is too small in every spot. Unless you have been pegged as a monster nit-ball you should be able to open for 15 here pre and get plenty of actions. Then bet close to pot on every street and print until they raise



As played river should be a fold but I've made worse calls many a time

Seven is too small of a raise preflop. In the 1-2 way of thinking that is only one red chip! Don't worry about being deceptive at small stakes just value bet big with your big hands. When someone plays back at you unless you have reason to think otherwise from past play the have it. This hand is basically a live poker 101 lesson and once you can adapt to the playing conditions just print that money

Wow the sheer volume of responses is great.
Some really good responses I appreciate your guys insight I will definitely be posting more hands here in the future.


Zy

Sent from my Galaxy S4 using 2+2 Forums

You can even make it $20 pre flop if a lot of people limp. It really depends on your table but I was at an action table one time and I made it $20 UTG at $1/$2 with AA and I got 4 callers. I **** you not - 4 callers with $300~ stacks effective.

Flop was gorgeous T/3/2 I made a giant flop bet - 2 callers
All in on turn - 1 caller
I ended up winning the hand. No clue what these guys had but it was like a 400bb pot.


It really depends on your table so i'm just saying the above to show that you can bet a crazy amount and still get called. If you are at the right table you can get away with quite a bit.

You sure can. Last session, I was at a weak-passive-limpy table with the biggest fish in the whole cardroom sitting behind a huge, just shy of $800 stack he made by luckboxing it with some of the most incredible hands. Went all in for over a hundred with something like 7,5-off. Got called by a slightly better 7,8-suited. Flopped a five that was good on the river. A little while later, he goes all-in for $150 + change with a 9,8-off. Pocket queens call, and he flops a Full. Played ATC and repeatedly sucked out by the river. This guy's been coming around for a couple of years, and I hope he never runs out of money.

Anyway, I have wired jacks OTB, and everyone limps in. I bomb it for $31, and five of these fish call. Flop comes down Q-rag-rag-rb. Up front player donks for $25, gets a minraise, a call, and I muck while cursing the Poker Gods for delivering that $@#^ queen instead of a jack. Afterwards, all hell breaks loose, and they build a 200BB+ pot. Ace drops OTT, and this fairly decent player with some fishy tendencies wins with A,T, one pair. The runner-up shows a QJ-off. The others fold without showing.

I still do very well, winning some 350BB. The deep, deep, deep mega-fish just doesn't know when to quit after Lady Luck gets tired of carrying him, and he loses most of it to the decent player with fish tendencies, and one other player who's the epitome of FoF. I take most of it from these two, but never lock horns with the mega-fish, who leaves the table six hours later with nothing. I get a good situation and felt Mr. FoF who reloads for another $200 and loses that too over the course of another couple of hours.

Live definitely isn't like on-line. You will see some of the damnedest things. You need not be concerned with killing the action by popping it big with a big holding. They can find a call with some of the damnedest things.

PF is Soooo variable live; you definitely need to be aware of table dynamics. In fact, that's thing one on my checklist.
Generally though anything less than $10 pre is a pot sweetener, and I'll tell the table that when I raise to $9 with a low pocket pair with a bunch of limpers when I'm set mining.

I hear conflicting opinions on whether the turn bet is good or not. I agree with you; I think there is just way too much value on the turn to NOT bet.

However, on the river, I think this is two pair VERY often. Sure 99 is possible, but so is a slowplayed 66, 76, 64, 97, or 96, and I think those are way more likely.

I would raise $12+ pre-flop. $7 does seem too small.

With four callers I would bet $25 OTF. With two callers fire $80 OTT. I would consider a fold OTR when facing a donk bet. That's a really bad card for us. I'd say that we're almost always up against at least 2p at this point.

Folding river isn't a consideration as much as it's completely mandatory unless hero hates money.


Zy


Sent from my Galaxy S4

In a live 1/2 game, bet sizing is different. You want to bet enough to get the hand as close to heads up as possible. Remember, AA is 82% favorite against one caller. But against four players its only 52%, a coinflip. Bet enough to get these numbers in your favor. In this situation, I'd bet 3xbb then add one bb for every limper in the hand. With such a strong hand, you want to run out those crazy limper hands, that make 2 pair or straights (like in this case) on boards like this. This flop is ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL for AA. But limped hands like 58, 35, T8, even 67, 24s that limp in these 1/2 games can side swipe you. Remember, when recreational players donk bet, its because they like the card they see, and they can't bet fast enough. Its different than in the books you read. Donk bets are described as "weak leads". Players seeing where they're at (not that I agree with this move, checking does the same thing). Its different in the smaller stakes games.

So you're open raising to $6 in a 1/2 game with 4 players left to act? You must really like coin flips.