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Old 04-08-2014, 03:47 PM   #1
Try-Harder-Fish
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1/2 NL - Full house gets check/raised on river

Villain: ($200) I am new to the table so don't have many reads. Villain is a late 20's asian dude, doesn't speak engrish. Has his buddy railing him. Seems fairly new to poker. I've seen him open limp AKs in EP and over-limp AQs on the BTN so I'm assuming he's pretty passive.

Preflop: Hero opens to $10 with QQ UTG, 3 callers including Villain in SB.

Flop: ($37) JJ4 Villain checks, Hero bets $20, folds to Villain who calls.

Turn: J ($76) Villain leads $25, Hero calls.

River: ($126) K Villain checks, Hero bets $35, Villain raises to $100, Hero?
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Old 04-08-2014, 04:00 PM   #2
RyanAA44
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Re: 1/2 NL - Full house gets check/raised on river

Grunch

Hmmmm.... The turn bet is suspect on a JJJ4 board but I would still raise to the pot (75)... If he's got a J... F me, right? But I feel he has AK KQ and small PP's. Maybe A4 or 44. After being called on turn and being checked too on river with a K I might be more inclined to just check back.

As played, you've dumped in 90 so far and have 65 more to call... I would just go off his body language but feel like I need to sigh call here.

Any other thoughts my fellow LLSNL posters?
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Old 04-08-2014, 04:17 PM   #3
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Re: 1/2 NL - Full house gets check/raised on river

Passive players never bet at you without the nuts.
Any JX beats us - as does any K.
44 would bet/raise the flop, not the turn.
Any med pp would bet the turn, but call the river.
Only a poorly played AA would raise the river.

It's cheap to call - but then again, it's half the dude's stack (from the beginning of the hand).

We bet for for value & information... got a ton of info back.
I think it's obvious we're beat.
I'd shrug, fold, tap the table and say "nice hand."
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Old 04-08-2014, 04:25 PM   #4
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Re: 1/2 NL - Full house gets check/raised on river

c/r river is always the nuts. I'd just fold.
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Old 04-08-2014, 04:29 PM   #5
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Re: 1/2 NL - Full house gets check/raised on river

Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94 View Post
c/r river is always the nuts. I'd just fold.
That's always my default, but his line doesn't make sense...

Fold because...
-No one check/raises the river without the nuts

Call because...
-No one donk leads when they hit quads into the aggressor
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Old 04-08-2014, 04:29 PM   #6
RyanAA44
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Re: 1/2 NL - Full house gets check/raised on river

But... But... We have QQ!!...??



Edit: by body language, I don't expect you to read his soul but merely... Is he shifting weight, what's he face look like, blah blah lol.

I just don't see quads betting into us on the turn, especially from a passive player
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Old 04-08-2014, 04:33 PM   #7
wj94
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Re: 1/2 NL - Full house gets check/raised on river

Quote:
Originally Posted by Try-Harder-Fish View Post
That's always my default, but his line doesn't make sense...

Fold because...
-No one check/raises the river without the nuts

Call because...
-No one donk leads when they hit quads into the aggressor
I would. Maybe he was hoping you'd raise his small turn bet. You can't even beat Kx though....so yeah, I'd still just fold.
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Old 04-08-2014, 04:35 PM   #8
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Re: 1/2 NL - Full house gets check/raised on river

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiroNakamara View Post
Passive players never bet at you without the nuts.
Any JX beats us - as does any K.
44 would bet/raise the flop, not the turn.
Any med pp would bet the turn, but call the river.
Only a poorly played AA would raise the river.

It's cheap to call - but then again, it's half the dude's stack (from the beginning of the hand).

We bet for for value & information... got a ton of info back.
I think it's obvious we're beat.
I'd shrug, fold, tap the table and say "nice hand."
Does it?
If we believe he has J here all the time we gotta have a sťance, especially if he is leading into us on the turn
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Old 04-08-2014, 04:35 PM   #9
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Re: 1/2 NL - Full house gets check/raised on river

Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94 View Post
I would. Maybe he was hoping you'd raise his small turn bet. You can't even beat Kx though....so yeah, I'd still just fold.
But you're not a passive FOB Asian
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Old 04-08-2014, 04:37 PM   #10
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Re: 1/2 NL - Full house gets check/raised on river

Quote:
Originally Posted by Try-Harder-Fish View Post
That's always my default, but his line doesn't make sense...

Fold because...
-No one check/raises the river without the nuts

Call because...
-No one donk leads when they hit quads into the aggressor
maybe he's got K4?
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Old 04-08-2014, 04:44 PM   #11
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Re: 1/2 NL - Full house gets check/raised on river

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanAA44 View Post
I just don't see quads betting into us on the turn, especially from a passive player
For a passive player - a $25 bet is a BIG bet!
Pot is 76 and he bets 25... he's got 0% bluffing here.
It's either a 4 or a J.

Then this passive player check raises the river!!
He's NOT doing this with a 4!

That screams "I GOT IT!" in passive engrish.

This guy has no idea what Hero has. He's only playing his hand.
Luckily for us, he's playing it face up.

80% of his range is a J. 20% is a K. 0% is a bluff.
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Old 04-08-2014, 04:57 PM   #12
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Re: 1/2 NL - Full house gets check/raised on river

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiroNakamara View Post
For a passive player - a $25 bet is a BIG bet!
Pot is 76 and he bets 25... he's got 0% bluffing here.
It's either a 4 or a J.

Then this passive player check raises the river!!
He's NOT doing this with a 4!

That screams "I GOT IT!" in passive engrish.

This guy has no idea what Hero has. He's only playing his hand.
Luckily for us, he's playing it face up.

80% of his range is a J. 20% is a K. 0% is a bluff.
I agree he has a K (sometimes), I would've just raised turn... No?
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:07 PM   #13
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Re: 1/2 NL - Full house gets check/raised on river

This is an easy and trivial fold.
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:15 PM   #14
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Re: 1/2 NL - Full house gets check/raised on river

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanAA44 View Post
I agree he has a K (sometimes), I would've just raised turn... No?
A good reg would bet turn to set the price he wants to pay for the river.
But I don't see that with this V.

Being that he's passive typically means that he only bets with the nuts... in this case: any J or AA (although KK is possible).

I like the turn call because V's range is so polarized.
And I don't mind betting for value on the river.
But the river check/raise can only mean we're beat by a passive fish.
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:19 PM   #15
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Re: 1/2 NL - Full house gets check/raised on river

interesting flat on the turn. . . .
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:22 PM   #16
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Re: 1/2 NL - Full house gets check/raised on river

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiroNakamara View Post
A good reg would bet turn to set the price he wants to pay for the river.
But I don't see that with this V.

Being that he's passive typically means that he only bets with the nuts... in this case: any J or AA (although KK is possible).

I like the turn call because V's range is so polarized.
And I don't mind betting for value on the river.
But the river check/raise can only mean we're beat by a passive fish.
Makes sense.
+1

I would probably flat turn to be honest (what's the purpose in raising, you're right). I guess air would barrel again on the river. Check/raise screams no bruff.

+1
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:38 PM   #17
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I think if he is new to poker he would always make this play with pocket 4s. AK makes some sense but if he is really passive he would probably fold on the flop or definitely not lead on the turn. I have no idea if this guy is a fish but if he is I would say pocket 4s takes this exact line every time because no way you have a pair here right?

Obviously any J would play it this way. I would raise KK on the flop every time and I think this guy would preflop raise AA if he is truly new.

If he flatted with KK on the flop then good for him but I am leaning towards a call here. I think the only thing that makes sense is a J or pocket 4s. Obviously we beat 4s so I would call. I may be in the minority here but I would not hero fold for 65 more. If he has a J I think we can still get our money back from him if we are properly rolled for this game.
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