Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
1/2 NL: Big pair on low flop 1/2 NL: Big pair on low flop

11-18-2013 , 12:27 PM
My stack $700 and change, villain to my immediate right a little short of $500. I've never played with him before, but in the first couple or three orbits since he sat down, he seemed to be at least competent but not particularly aggressive.

I'm dealt TcTd on the button. Four limpers in front, I raise to $12, villain good-naturedly says something like "every time I limp you raise." BB calls, all limpers call, villain shrugs and says "I guess I have to call."

So, six-way action, $73-$7 (rake plus jackpot drop)=$67 in the pot. Flop is 3s4c5s. A couple of checks, known maniac who spews heavily on any pair goes all-in for $85. I immediately dismiss any worries about him. Villain calls the $85. I tank for a few seconds, figure villain probably has a good draw and decide to push him out by raising to $200. Everyone folds around to villain, who tanks for a few seconds and says "All-in." It'll cost me about $285 more to call.

Because of his preflop reactions, I immediately dismiss the possibility of a set. I'm not buying a straight, thinking he would have raised the all-in bet to push out any flush draws behind. I'm guessing he either hit two pairs with something like 4d5d or possibly hit a pair and a draw with something like As4s or 5d6d.

What should I do?

Last edited by Botswami; 11-18-2013 at 12:33 PM.
1/2 NL: Big pair on low flop Quote
11-18-2013 , 03:04 PM
Fold. Any worse overpair to the board would flat your raise and go into check call mode. You also said Villain isn't particular aggressive so any sort of aggression should be taken seriously.
1/2 NL: Big pair on low flop Quote
11-18-2013 , 03:22 PM
Absolutely.

I don't like what range you put him on at all.

What we beat:

32, 42, 52, 36, 46, 66, 22, 56, 57, A3, A4ss, A6ss, K4ss, K2ss, K6ss, you get the point. The list is endless

What beats us:

67, 26, A2, sets, made straights with redraws to spades etc etc.

Don't think Villain ever shows up with AA-JJ here.

What you have decide is whether you are already beat. Even the hands you have beat will have you in awful trouble in a lot of board runouts. You don't even have a 10s blocker if you do think your Villains are chasing.

Don't like the raise to 12 with 4 limpers. Make it 20-25 at least.

I hate your 200 isolation raise. Villain flatted a super wet board! You think an extra 115 will scare him off?! Now this type of Villain shipping you're almost always completely crushed.

Also your read of him is scary wrong. 'Because of his pre flop reaction I immediately dismiss a set'. Wha?! This guy seems a total standard nooby trappy type. Remember we don't all raise with the nuts immediately for value and to charge draws. You were the pre flop aggressor (if you can call your 12 raise into four limpers aggressive). Why wouldn't he set the trap for you...

As played fold like NOW.

Last edited by jjjjudas; 11-18-2013 at 03:36 PM.
1/2 NL: Big pair on low flop Quote
11-18-2013 , 03:25 PM
You have to raise this more pre the first time around.

I think you have to know what you're going to do here before you raise the flop. Plan your hand.

Flop is probably a fold the first time btw.
1/2 NL: Big pair on low flop Quote
11-18-2013 , 04:52 PM
A good draw isn't going to be pushed out by your raise of $115 getting 3:1 odds. In fact, I'm not surprised about what happened; you put yourself in hell by making that raise that puts half of your stack in the middle without a plan. Don't do that.

I would flat the $85, as the pot will be protected by the all-in player. (It's less likely your remaining opponent bluffs)
1/2 NL: Big pair on low flop Quote
11-18-2013 , 04:58 PM
Did you expect anyone to fold to your $12 pf?

OTF, if you are narrowing his range so much to pair+draw and want to price him out, you need to be shoving.
1/2 NL: Big pair on low flop Quote
11-18-2013 , 05:34 PM
Yeah, the $12 pf raise was bad. I realized that instantaneously on making it.

I'm never folding the $85. I'm not inclined to flat here, either. But my mistake I guess is being caught off-guard by his shoving my raise. I should have considered that possibility, never did. I 95% expected him to fold, 5% to call. My bad. I guess if I had considered that possibility, I could have flatted and see what he does with the turn.

I tanked for a while, just could not put him on a set or a straight. Thought it could have been 34 or 45 with strong possibility it was 56 or A6. Looking at 3:1 pot odds and a decent possibility I was still ahead, I called.

He showed 5c3c. Another 5 hit the turn, something other than a T hit the river.

Fully in agreement I should have gone around 20 preflop. I keep going back and forth on calling or folding his shove. But I do fully agree that I screwed up by not anticipating the possibility.
1/2 NL: Big pair on low flop Quote
11-18-2013 , 07:58 PM
Fold or raise a bit larger/commit flop

Plan out the hand before you raise. Know roughly what you will do if shoved on.

Probably folding to the flop donkbet against this action
1/2 NL: Big pair on low flop Quote
11-18-2013 , 08:17 PM
Why were you so adamently discounting a set here? He played it exactly like he had a set.
1/2 NL: Big pair on low flop Quote

      
m