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Old 04-08-2014, 12:18 AM   #1
kenshi3
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1/2 NL AQ off

Table is generally very loose, at least 2+ limps every round, hero is seen as young asian nit player, started with $200 and refilled $100 after losing a couple cbets and decent sized pots.

Hand 1:

AQ against villain on my right ( loose aggressive asian dad, capable of making river bluffs, knows when to fold, flopped alot of nut straights with 57o, 58o etc, and stacked couple ppl , also boat over boat when i first entered the table and is around $800 stack )

After several limps, Hero in BB raises to 25, 2 callers.

Flop comes :

Q 8 6

Hero bets $52, MP folds, Villain Calls

Turn:

J

Hero check, Villain checks,

River:

K

Hero check, villain bets 20, hero calls.
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:19 AM   #2
Richard Parker
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Re: 1/2 NL AQ off

Why aren't you betting turn?
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:22 AM   #3
spikeraw22
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Re: 1/2 NL AQ off

Explain your sizing both pre and flop.

Now explain why you didn't bet turn.
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Old 04-08-2014, 01:11 AM   #4
kenshi3
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Re: 1/2 NL AQ off

Table was loose, I bet 25 because I wanted as little callers as possible, because 15-20 might get 4-5. The flop size was only 50 out of 75, isnt a a 1/3rd pot bet reasonable ? I didn't bet turn because I knew this guy was gonna call off any reasonable bet, so I thought I had marginal hand and just want to go show down for cheap. This guy was going "easy" on me cuz we both speak the same foreign langauge.
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Old 04-08-2014, 01:14 AM   #5
Richard Parker
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Why do you think you have a marginal hand?
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Old 04-08-2014, 01:26 AM   #6
eldiesel
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Re: 1/2 NL AQ off

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshi3 View Post
I didn't bet turn because I knew this guy was gonna call off any reasonable bet
That's a reason to bet not to check.
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Old 04-08-2014, 01:29 AM   #7
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Re: 1/2 NL AQ off

I'm OK with flop bet size but on turn, you still have TPTK and you have less than a pot sized bet behind.

if my math is correct, you have $123 left and pot is $180

I think you have to jam there with tptk

don't understand the river play at all but..the mistake here is made on the turn.
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Old 04-08-2014, 01:33 AM   #8
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Re: 1/2 NL AQ off

just a note on your original post...you didn't include a question you want answered!

your post is pretty well laid out but it's critical that you are explicit about what you are asking the forum to post on
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Old 04-08-2014, 02:50 AM   #9
Triple7quinn
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Re: 1/2 NL AQ off

Quote:
Originally Posted by eldiesel View Post
That's a reason to bet not to check.
This^^^

And I'm shoving turn. Less than a PSB left and there is still a lot of hands that are likely in his calling range.
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Old 04-08-2014, 03:09 AM   #10
LitLateNight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshi3 View Post
....so I thought I had marginal hand and just want to go show down for cheap....
Don't be a show down monkey, looking to get there for cheap and giving up on value. You should be extracting value with that type of flop and turn. If he hit or had you "Oh well" bc poker is a long term proposition. You should be value owning yourself a lot bc it's the right thing to do and will make you money in these spots.

I don't think it has to be a shove on turn but at least half pot bet for value bc of your stack. You should be playing for stacks here though, nowhere deep enough for it to be anything less. Don't get scared and own this dude next time with this situation.
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Old 04-08-2014, 03:37 AM   #11
kenshi3
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Re: 1/2 NL AQ off

Thanks for replies, villain showed A10 off, then I really hated myself for not all in on the turn. But he woulda hit his 4 outer, so lame man

Also wouldn't it be bad to shove my remaining maybe $120ish into the pot on turn, cuz then I would question, villain would not call that bet with worse right?

Last edited by kenshi3; 04-08-2014 at 03:53 AM.
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:34 AM   #12
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Re: 1/2 NL AQ off

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshi3 View Post
Thanks for replies, villain showed A10 off, then I really hated myself for not all in on the turn. But he woulda hit his 4 outer, so lame man

Also wouldn't it be bad to shove my remaining maybe $120ish into the pot on turn, cuz then I would question, villain would not call that bet with worse right?
Results oriented thinking. We bet because he is often going to call with worse. We have a good hand here...

Also, no... He isn't always going to be folding worse and calling with better. On the turn we need to bet to get value out of our hands. You're a nit... The little hands you play and when you hit the board hard as fuh like you did on flop, we need to continue with the turn... The turn brings a straight draw if villain called the flop with 9T, but I don't see him doing that often. KQ and QT and a lot of other smaller PP's are in his range.
IMO
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Old 04-08-2014, 06:07 AM   #13
Duke0424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshi3 View Post
Thanks for replies, villain showed A10 off, then I really hated myself for not all in on the turn. But he woulda hit his 4 outer, so lame man

Also wouldn't it be bad to shove my remaining maybe $120ish into the pot on turn, cuz then I would question, villain would not call that bet with worse right?
Villain will call with KQ/QJ so you should shove
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Old 04-08-2014, 06:15 AM   #14
RyanAA44
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Re: 1/2 NL AQ off

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke0424 View Post
Villain will call with KQ/QJ so you should shove
QJ beats hero
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Old 04-08-2014, 06:31 AM   #15
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QJ beats hero
Oh my bad, still trying to learn hand rankings
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Old 04-08-2014, 06:42 AM   #16
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Re: 1/2 NL AQ off

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke0424 View Post
Oh my bad, still trying to learn hand rankings
No troll, just stating before he asks, "doesn't QJ beat hero?!".

GL
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Old 04-08-2014, 07:44 AM   #17
AbqDave
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Re: 1/2 NL AQ off

Hero is currently perceived as a losing player.

When that happens to me, a change in game plan is called for (if not a table change). Aggressive preflop raising followed by aggressive flop play backfires because the fish start looking me up light. At that point, I nit down and plan on showing up with the goods next couple of times I'm in the pot. Then I'm happy for those dopes to start looking me up.

So with that in mind, is there any sentiment for checking pre?

With little or no fold equity, perhaps that huge preflop bet was overplaying (and bloating the pot with) a good, but not excellent holding?
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Old 04-08-2014, 08:02 AM   #18
DEAR SKANK
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Re: 1/2 NL AQ off

You should tighten up when dealing with loose table..

I dont blame OP for squeezing this big, in my home game around my town, PFR is roughly 12 for first 2 hours, 15-25 when avg stack is 300-400. $100 in the flop is very common.

Generally you see 4 people in an open pot to the flop. SPR on flop are usually very shallow, i suggest you turbo your game and be more aggressive, its not always the sizing if you have higher betting frequency then the table will give you more respect
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:00 PM   #19
Richard Parker
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Re: 1/2 NL AQ off

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshi3 View Post
Thanks for replies, villain showed A10 off, then I really hated myself for not all in on the turn. But he woulda hit his 4 outer, so lame man

Also wouldn't it be bad to shove my remaining maybe $120ish into the pot on turn, cuz then I would question, villain would not call that bet with worse right?
It's fine if villain folds.

Think about it this way:

If we are 67% equity, it means we are 2:1 favorite.

If the pot is $100 and we bet $100, we are offering exactly 2:1 to villain. Although villain is a dog in this spot, he's actually making an EV neutral call.
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:29 PM   #20
CallMeVernon
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Re: 1/2 NL AQ off

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshi3 View Post
Thanks for replies, villain showed A10 off, then I really hated myself for not all in on the turn. But he woulda hit his 4 outer, so lame man

Also wouldn't it be bad to shove my remaining maybe $120ish into the pot on turn, cuz then I would question, villain would not call that bet with worse right?
He actually had 8 outs (a 9 beats you too).

Also, looking at how he played the rest of the hand, he probably would have called the turn if you shoved. You understand why that's good, right? If you are looking at the turn and river play as money saved, you have a leak.
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