This past week I played quite a bit of 1/2 NL on a cruise ship and the game was even more aggro/strange than your typical 1/2 game at a casino.

I didn't play in the following hand, just witnessed it.

V1 - $120 - Mid 30's typical Asian. Action player, loved getting his chips in the middle. I could tell he knew how to play the game, he was just too aggro IMO.

V2 - $1,000 - Early 40's female. She kept talking about playing lots of poker in local card rooms back home. Very loose player, large pre-flop raises ($20-$22 anytime she raised), 3-bet very light (saw her 3-bet multiple times at a 10-handed table with A8, T7, J8, etc), called down light, just a very loose player. Running REALLY well on the day. At one point her stack was down to $100 but she ran it up to $1100 by crushing every flop and sucking out when necessary.

There were other players in the hand, but these are the only two of importance

Onto the hand...

Someone raises to $17 in EP, 2 callers, V2 calls in the CO, V1 calls in the BB

Flop - $80ish - Jd 9d 5c

Checks all around

Turn - $80ish - Jd 9d 5c 4h

V1 shoves for ~$100, folds around to V2 who insta-calls. V1 flips over AQdd, for the flush draw with two overs, V2 flips over K9 for second pair, river bricks, V2 takes the pot with a pair of 9's.

At this point she leaned over to the person next to her and said "well that was an easy call." Personally I'd never be able to make that call with second pair and think it's -EV in the long run. Am I too nitty/MUBSy? Is that a call y'all would make?

Well, given that you describe him as TOO aggro, and since there are so many draws on this board, yeah, I think a shove OTT after the flop checks through is highly indicative of a draw. This player on this board has more than enough draws in his range to make this a +EV snap call with any piece of the board.

It all depends on how aggro V1 really is. Against some Vs it IS a fairly easy call for a just over 50BB effective starting stack. Aggro V + a short stack is going to be some wild stuff.

Your fine breh, that call is pretty loose and V1 is a total fish don't listen to her

Call is loose but against this villain, I could see it being profitable. He is described as super aggro and only has a 50bb stack. He is certainly capable of shipping it with all kinds of junk and feel like he would be committing on the flop with all of his value hands.

Against a loose V, this is still soft. I'd have to have at least a decent J to call there personally, and even then i'd have to be sure he was on a draw to make the call.

I mean, his shoving range has to include at least some jacks here.

Appreciate the feedback from everyone so far. The quoted post pretty much sums up my thoughts.

It's certainly close. I doubt I make the call but it really depends on your reads on the guy at the table.

I'm new here, but I don't get it. How is pot $80ish in 1/2 with 3 players x $17 = $51 plus maybe a $1 SB = $52? (BB is one of callers) Am I missing something? Then if V1 is aggro, why isn't he raising PF from the BB with AQs and maybe squeezing out one of the others? I assume V2 took the check around after the flop to indicate V1 missed and was only on a draw. Yes?

I apologize for the confusing OP. The pot had 5 players going to the flop. Someone raised, then two callers in MP, then V1, then V2. Sorry about that.

Sure, but you only have to win approximately 36% of the time to be EV neutral here. Since the flop checked through when he had about a PSB left, you wanna convince me he has a jack even half the time, but thought he would be a nice guy and let everybody catch up? If he shoves OTF, this is an entirely different hand, but I think his check flop/shove turn range has a lot more draws and a lot fewer jacks.

I agree. This villain with a short stack is more often going to bet the flop. His check through makes me think he is FOS.

It would be a pretty easy call if V1 is a habitual slowplay machine with his value range.

A lot of players don't notice that many aggressive players in LLSNL are aggressive with a narrow range that is heavily weighted toward semi-bluffs and bluffs, and since that range naturally dominates value range in frequency, such player would simply be labeled as "aggressive."

It's important to note that V1 wasn't the preflop aggressor.

Open shoving flop into preflop aggressor IMO is far weaker.

I agree with this response 100%. But, this is based on previous action by Villain. Sometimes you have to stack off with middle pair against these player types. And given the flop and turn action, with the draw heavy board I like the call.

I'm not sure I entirely agree with you here. This V has called almost 1/6 his stack preflop, he cannot risk this checking through if he has a jack, which is really all I was commenting about above. If he was deeper, than sure, check to the PFR makes more sense, bet the turn if it checks through, but given his stack size I would have to weight his shove OTT to more draws or stronger made hands (2 pair+). I just think second pair is as reasonable to call here as top pair is.

It's heavily read dependent.

You're making the assumption that someone who calls off 1/6 of his stack in the BB is going to worry about flop check through when he is holding TP.

You're also making the assumption that this person doesn't expect preflop aggressor to c-bet, which is pretty standard in most LLSNL nowadays.

Third is that you're making an assumption that V1 thinks that flop being checked through with Jx is a disaster.

and there could be more, but I think these 3 are pretty much the basis of why I think open shoving Jx is weak.

Oh I just came up with another. The fact that villain is holding AQdd, if he thinks about any of the above, he would realize that not getting his chips in on the flop is a disaster, and yet he didn't.

So ya, I don't think your read is accurate.

Heh, calling 1/6 his stack preflop when there is 71 dollars in the pot when it gets to him is the real disaster for AQs.

You have set up a really weird argument above. I'm guessing that the thrust of it is that this V is not a thinking player, since he should have shoved AQd OTF, so this somehow means he can still have a jack since

So, am I to understand he is not thinking enough to know that not shoving AQd (flop or preflop) is bad, yet thinking enough to know that shoving Jx is weak?

So, ya, I think your argument got a little away from you here.

Anyway, it's beside the point. You obviously range this V differently than I do given the action up til now. That's ok, we can agree to disagree.

if i dont hit my flush on the turn I folding 100% of the time to a psb on the turn