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Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

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Old 09-06-2016, 04:03 PM   #1
rickyracer
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1/2 NL - All in play vs grinder

I was on the button, chip stack down to about $100
villain was SB - sunglasses, hollywood poker hat, pokerstars t shirt, hoodie. he sat down 2 hands before this so i had no idea how he plays, I think i'm never going to get into a HU pot with a newcomer at the table ever again

Preflop

Hero:4 4
Villain: 5 6

10 ring. Everyone folds to me. I raise to $7.
Villain calls

Pot: 15$

Flop
6 3 2

Villain checks. I bet $25
Villain calls

Pot: 65$

Turn
6 3 2 Q

Villain checks.
I go all in (68$)

Pot: $133


Villain calls

River
6 3 2 Q K




I'm still new with <100 hrs of SSLNL experience, how badly did I **** up here?
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Old 09-06-2016, 04:09 PM   #2
ITT666
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Re: 1/2 NL - All in play vs grinder

For future reference you should provide the exact positions of you and villain (s) when writing up a hand history for discussion. Helps people to have more info and thus give you better and more helpful advice.

In this particular hand I think the most important thing for you to answer, and this is for yourself just as much as any of us, is, why did you shove the turn? I mean what was the reasoning in your head?
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Old 09-06-2016, 04:13 PM   #3
rickyracer
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Re: 1/2 NL - All in play vs grinder

Quote:
Originally Posted by ITT666 View Post
For future reference you should provide the exact positions of you and villain (s) when writing up a hand history for discussion. Helps people to have more info and thus give you better and more helpful advice.

In this particular hand I think the most important thing for you to answer, and this is for yourself just as much as any of us, is, why did you shove the turn? I mean what was the reasoning in your head?
My aces were cracked twice. I was down to $100 from my buyin. I was playing tight all game pretty much except when i was in position. I wasn't on tilt, but it didn't feel like the cards were going my way, so I was waiting to make a move.

I made a big cbet on the flop $25 and wasn't expecting a call on a board like that, was representing a overpair.

on the turn, I felt if I wanted to fire a 2nd shot I needed to bet the pot and thus go all in. Looking back, I should fired another $25 bet and pushed the river no matter what, but I'm not sure if that's better because pot odds would have just led him to call.

I think I just wanted to make a move. no idea why I overplayed that hand so poorly. If I was thinking straight, I think I would have checked the turn after he called the cbet, and checked, and then reevaluated from there.

but I thought he was weak. and i wanted to continue to look very strong

Last edited by rickyracer; 09-06-2016 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 09-06-2016, 04:43 PM   #4
ITT666
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Re: 1/2 NL - All in play vs grinder

Yeah, so betting to 'make a move,' and betting just because you are checked to aren't really valid reasons to bet. Sounds like you kind of understand that already, but maybe just were a bit tilted in the moment. That's understandable if you're still relatively new to the game, it can take a long time to become essentially tilt less in poker and a lot of players never achieve it. So don't beat yourself up too much over that, best you can do is acknowledge it and be honest with yourself about it, which it seems you've done already.

As for reasons to bet.

There are three reasons to bet:

As a bluff (get better hands to fold)

For value (get worse hands to call)

To protect your equity in the hand


Let's ignore reason three for now, because it comes up the least often of the three, is more nuanced than the other two. and over all considerably less important to learn as a relative beginner.

Ok, so betting as a bluff or for value

Well let's look at your bets, do you think either of them will be called by any worse hands? Eh... there are a few worse hands that might call a flopped c-bet, 34 for example, but probably not a c-bet of that size. You even said you were trying to rep an overpair.

Ok, so you clearly aren't betting either flop or turn for value. That means you are bluffing with it.

Once you can transition from 'I'm betting here because I want to make a move,' or 'I'm betting here because my opponent checked,' to...

'I'm betting here as a bluff, I want to get better hands to fold,'

you're already maturing and improving in your poker thought process.

But next you need to move your mind to your opponents hand, to his range of hands.

Ok, on the flop there may be a rather wide range of hands he called your $7(3.5 bb's) raise with preflop. But once he calls your overbet c-bet on the flop, what hands that called that do you actually expect to fold to your turn shove? There might be a few actually, some over pairs to the floped board perhaps like 88-TT. So perhaps you will get some better hands to fold to your turn jam.

What I'm trying to get at here, isn't so much is this particular hand played well or poorly, because answering that won't help you nearly as much as you training yourself to think more deeply about hands and decisions.

If you're thinking things like 'I'm going to make a move here,' or 'Well my opponent checked to me, guess I might as well go ahead and bet,' you're not thinking nearly deeply enough about things.

Start asking yourself before making any bet 'Am I betting for value here or as a bluff here?' 'If I'm betting for value what worse hands can I realistically expect my opponent to call me with that are actually in his range in this spot?' 'If I'm betting as a bluff what better hands can I realistically expect my opponent to fold that are actually in his range in this spot?'

If you can make that transition in your thought process during hands and before betting that will help you far more in the long run than getting additional advice on this single hand.
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Old 09-06-2016, 04:55 PM   #5
Amanaplan
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Re: 1/2 NL - All in play vs grinder

cbet less, ck turn, ck riv or fold to any bet.
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Old 09-06-2016, 08:48 PM   #6
WereBeer
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Re: 1/2 NL - All in play vs grinder

OP, you played this badly because you were tilting. BTW everyone knows shortstacks who got that way by getting big hands cracked will stack off light, which may be why you got called down here. In this situation you can assume you have very little fold equity, which makes it a bad time to get fancy and barrel your weak mid pair + gutter.
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Old 09-06-2016, 09:00 PM   #7
Buster65
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Re: 1/2 NL - All in play vs grinder

Honestly, although I'm kinda the "raise pre" guy around here, I don't like your preflop play. You are not really deep enough to raise a small pp, you end up simply cutting your IO in this hand, and you don't have enough back to be a credible threat postflop.

It sounds weird, but with this kinda chip stack, and given that no one else is playing, I would just chuck this hand. If you had limpers preflop, I could get behind setmining (for the blind, of course, I would also chuck this to a raise), but absent that, I would just toss it. Raising it will either win you the blinds, or get you into trouble postflop (as it did here), and 44 doesn't really have enough equity postflop to have me excited about this play. Deeper, sure, just not this shallow.
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