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Old 11-01-2013, 02:00 AM   #1
PreFlopRaiser
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1/2 NL - AA in CO w/ 3 players to the Flop.

V1 UTG - $380 ultra nit, hit/fold, rarely bluff or get out of line
Hero CO - $300
V2 BUTTON - $420 Solid player, gets money in good, havn't seen get out of line, reg


V1 UTG limps for $2 , action folds to hero in CO with AA, hero raises to $15,
V2 flat calls on the Button, V1 flat calls.


Flop - Pot $45

23J

V1 checks, Hero bets $35, V2 flat calls, V1 folds.

Turn - Pot $115

8

Hero bets $70, V2 flat calls?

River - Pot $255

7

What is hero's play here first to act on the river? Do I shove? Check hoping for a bluff by a missed flush draw? Bet little to look weak? What is V1's range here on the river? What could he call turn bet with?


Spoiler:
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Old 11-01-2013, 02:09 AM   #2
daniel9861
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Re: 1/2 NL - AA in CO w/ 3 players to the Flop.

NH. WP. Sucks you lost.
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Old 11-01-2013, 02:26 AM   #3
eldiesel
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Re: 1/2 NL - AA in CO w/ 3 players to the Flop.

V played it good by not being scared of the hearts and raising otf or ott. A lot of pople would have done that.
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:02 AM   #4
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Re: 1/2 NL - AA in CO w/ 3 players to the Flop.

you pretty much got trapped.
alarm bells should of gone off when he called the big turn bet (you said he was a solid player)
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:14 AM   #5
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Re: 1/2 NL - AA in CO w/ 3 players to the Flop.

I don't think a solid reg ever calls a $180 river shove, which is 70% of the pot, with just top pair. You'd be better off bet/folding a smaller amount or check/calling if you think he's capable of bluffing. I probably lean towards a $120 bet/fold because I don't think he can ever ship the last $60 with a bluff or with a hand like AJ.
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:18 AM   #6
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Re: 1/2 NL - AA in CO w/ 3 players to the Flop.

^ I'm ok with c/c to get missed hearts to try and bluff. But we can't put 80% of our stack in with a 120 b/f. Betting 120 otr is so far beyond committed, I'd only pull a move like that with a missed 6 hi flush draw or something, something that's impossible to be good at showdown.
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:23 AM   #7
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Re: 1/2 NL - AA in CO w/ 3 players to the Flop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eldiesel View Post
^ I'm ok with c/c to get missed hearts to try and bluff. But we can't put 80% of our stack in with a 120 b/f. Betting 120 otr is so far beyond committed, I'd only pull a move like that with a missed 6 hi flush draw or something, something that's impossible to be good at showdown.
its not 80% of our stack

hes probably not calling $180 with top pair

he might call $100-120 with top pair.

if he shoves, we're never good. if he had any bluffing frequency, i'd agree with you but there arent any solid live players who are bluffing $60-80 more against someone who took a bet/bet/bet line
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Old 11-01-2013, 04:11 AM   #8
eldiesel
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Re: 1/2 NL - AA in CO w/ 3 players to the Flop.

$15 pf, $35 otf, $70 ott, and you're saying go with $120 otf = $240. We started with $300. 240/300 = 0.8, I would've thought they taught that at Duke.

I agree he prob doesn't call $180 with 1 pair, more likely to just call $100 with it. But if we bet 120 with only 180 behind, V's a lot of times will say something like "ah whatever" and move in. B/f is a solid play, we're just too shallow here to do it.
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Old 11-01-2013, 04:25 AM   #9
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Re: 1/2 NL - AA in CO w/ 3 players to the Flop.

Responses are typically skewed here because you posted results right away. Next time stop at the turn and let discussion percolate a bit for better discussion.

Having not read the spoiler (but figuring out results from responses), I'm checking this river and hoping for a cheap show-down. Being a solid reg, he's got too put you on exactly what you have: TPGK or over-pair. For him to call the turn bet, you've got to feel like he's "roping the dope" a bit (not sure if that's quite correct, but you've got my gist).
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Old 11-01-2013, 01:49 PM   #10
Duke0424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldiesel View Post
$15 pf, $35 otf, $70 ott, and you're saying go with $120 otf = $240. We started with $300. 240/300 = 0.8, I would've thought they taught that at Duke.

I agree he prob doesn't call $180 with 1 pair, more likely to just call $100 with it. But if we bet 120 with only 180 behind, V's a lot of times will say something like "ah whatever" and move in. B/f is a solid play, we're just too shallow here to do it.
I thought you meant river bet was 80% of remaining stack
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:02 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldiesel View Post
V played it good by not being scared of the hearts and raising otf or ott. A lot of pople would have done that.
This.
I think u both played it fine if there's such a thing

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Old 11-01-2013, 03:24 PM   #12
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Quote:
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This.
I think u both played it fine if there's such a thing

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This - check/ eval prob fold river without bluff history
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:35 PM   #13
daniel9861
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Re: 1/2 NL - AA in CO w/ 3 players to the Flop.

I mean other than betting smaller I don't see how we can avoid losing a big chunk of our stack here. Since Villain is a solid reg I don't see him stacking off 150bbs deep with TPTK so maybe we could bet around 1/3-1/2 pot on turn and river and fold to a ship. Checking sucks because we allow him to control the size of the pot and he can choose to pot control with TP and set up for a river shove with a set.
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Old 11-01-2013, 09:16 PM   #14
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Re: 1/2 NL - AA in CO w/ 3 players to the Flop.

Everything you had done up to the river seems very standard. As for the river I like checking with the full intention of calling. The reason for the check is you are rarely getting 3 streets of value from top pair type hands and you give him some rope to try and buy the pot with missed flush draws and possibly 45 although that's stretching It I think. This also allows him to value bet QQ or KK If he is capable of playing those hands this way.
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Old 11-02-2013, 02:19 AM   #15
pd86
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Re: 1/2 NL - AA in CO w/ 3 players to the Flop.

This may be a flaw in my game but I feel like turn bet is pretty steep vs tight reg and after he calls no river is really good for us but A so shove is hard for me

I dont see him just calling flop with qq. And if he had qq kk on turn he just calls ? You could think he is putting you on AA but then can he really call a river shove ?

If you go 55 on that turn leaves you option of a bet/f if he comes over top or check call for smaller amount

Feel free to show me my wrong points cus i am here to learn
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Old 11-02-2013, 02:39 AM   #16
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Re: 1/2 NL - AA in CO w/ 3 players to the Flop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PreFlopRaiser View Post
V1 UTG - $380 ultra nit, hit/fold, rarely bluff or get out of line
Hero CO - $300
V2 BUTTON - $420 Solid player, gets money in good, havn't seen get out of line, reg


V1 UTG limps for $2 , action folds to hero in CO with AA, hero raises to $15,
V2 flat calls on the Button, V1 flat calls.


Flop - Pot $45

23J

V1 checks, Hero bets $35, V2 flat calls, V1 folds.

Turn - Pot $115

8

Hero bets $70, V2 flat calls?

River - Pot $255

7

What is hero's play here first to act on the river? Do I shove? Check hoping for a bluff by a missed flush draw? Bet little to look weak? What is V1's range here on the river? What could he call turn bet with?


Spoiler:
As played you are going broke on this hand more. You could check call river and hope its not all your chips. i dont see what bet you put out that lets you get away from hand while also not leaving you open to all in bluffs sensing your weak.

I would not put him on missed flush draw going hu and calling your turn bet, besides aq ak hearts he cant really be to solid if he's calling your turn bet cus he would have to know his pair prolly won't be good. So checking for a push vs missed flush doesnt seem like a good play

Bet little to look weak would be a decent line if i wasnt ****ting myself from his turn call of my giant bet. As played he may just call your bet little with qq kk so you are losing value there and aj raise would be pretty horrid from a solid. He could try and push with his high heart draw but then its you making the crying call or folding

Last question I'm assuming you want button villain range not utg?
I would think suited paint,aq+, pp not sure what his image of you is so maybe all pp if he feels you dont c bet very often .

On the flop id narrow it down take out kq aq 44-77 unless he is stubborn,

Turn id really be scared of call thinking jj ,22,33 ak hearts 88, you could go kk qq aj, but he might have wanted to find out where he is before the river comes and he has to call for his stack which you were heading toward with those bets
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Old 11-03-2013, 09:29 AM   #17
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Re: 1/2 NL - AA in CO w/ 3 players to the Flop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pd86 View Post
As played you are going broke on this hand more. You could check call river and hope its not all your chips. i dont see what bet you put out that lets you get away from hand while also not leaving you open to all in bluffs sensing your weak.

I would not put him on missed flush draw going hu and calling your turn bet, besides aq ak hearts he cant really be to solid if he's calling your turn bet cus he would have to know his pair prolly won't be good. So checking for a push vs missed flush doesnt seem like a good play

Bet little to look weak would be a decent line if i wasnt ****ting myself from his turn call of my giant bet. As played he may just call your bet little with qq kk so you are losing value there and aj raise would be pretty horrid from a solid. He could try and push with his high heart draw but then its you making the crying call or folding

Last question I'm assuming you want button villain range not utg?
I would think suited paint,aq+, pp not sure what his image of you is so maybe all pp if he feels you dont c bet very often .

On the flop id narrow it down take out kq aq 44-77 unless he is stubborn,

Turn id really be scared of call thinking jj ,22,33 ak hearts 88, you could go kk qq aj, but he might have wanted to find out where he is before the river comes and he has to call for his stack which you were heading toward with those bets
So you're turning this into a bluff ott? Or shutting down completely? Just because the description is solid reg I don't think we can say he plays perfectly and he'll chase his fd's only tp the turn and not to the river. Plenty of guys who are "solid" and regs would call/call/call with AJ here and we double through him. And plenty of those same guys would raise massive otf or ott because they were scared of the hearts. I think he just played this one as good as he could have, it also helped that we had a hand that wasn't losing to much. If you see him playing more hand perfectly like this one, just avoid hands with him or change to seats to have pos. so the impact is lessened when he outplays you.
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