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1-2 NL: 3 Barrel Bluff ?? 1-2 NL: 3 Barrel Bluff ??

11-20-2012 , 08:45 PM
This is my first hand posting guys...so please be kind.

I am in a 1-2NL game at Foxwoods for about 2hrs at the point this hand comes up. I have played maybe only 2 or 3 hands so far and all have been premium holdings.

On my immediate right is a solid player who seems to not get out of line very much and has won a few pots.

We both have about $400.

Solid player on my right opens the pot from UTG+1 for $10.
We both have almost exactly $400.
I have 44
I call the $10 and everyone else folds.

At this point I am set mining. I know he is a solid player with a decent holding to open this early and we both have 200BB's.

Flop comes KK3
Villian leads out for $15.

At this point I do not believe he would bet a king.
But I do believe he thinks I might raise if I have a King.
I have been playing very straight forward and earlier played a big hand very fast that he saw me show down. I also think he may put me on a flush draw and that gives me the option of betting the turn if the third comes.
That was my basic thinking anyway....

I raise to $45 and villian calls.

Turn is 9

Board is now KK39

Villian checks and I bet $40
This me following up with my plan from the flop.
Villian thinks for 15-20 seconds and calls.

I wanted the pot right there. The call really has me worried now. I have him on QQ or JJ at this point. Maybe AA?? or could he have AQ with a diamond. I am kinda ****ting a brick at this point.

River is 7

Board is now KK397

Villian checks and I bet $100

This was a tough spot for me. I know many of you probably think this 3 barrel bluffing stuff comes second hand to most of us but I gotta tell ya I really was shaking in my boots when I shoved that $100 stack out there.

I am not sure if I came even close to playing this correctly. I feel like I did a decent job of trying to think my way thru the hand the whole way but this type of play is not really in my comfort zone yet.

Any and all comments welcomed. Thanks in advance.

Spoiler:
Villian folds AA heads up
1-2 NL: 3 Barrel Bluff ?? Quote
11-20-2012 , 08:48 PM
You must be playing nits. I don't get why he would call two streets to fold. Don't post results.
1-2 NL: 3 Barrel Bluff ?? Quote
11-20-2012 , 08:50 PM
Sorry for posting results. I thought I was supposed to put them in a spoiler box. My bad, wont happen again.
1-2 NL: 3 Barrel Bluff ?? Quote
11-20-2012 , 08:53 PM
you turned your hand into a bluff and did it well

repped a k or a flish draw or possibly 333 and barreled the turn and river

good job

however playing at this level you are better off folding the flop or floating it and wait for better spots

such as value betting these fish and not getting into elaborate bluffs
1-2 NL: 3 Barrel Bluff ?? Quote
11-20-2012 , 08:57 PM
once he calls ott it is pretty spewy to fire a third bullet. Think of his range. bet/call flop and c/c turn. this shows significant interest and trying to push llsnl players off hands they become married too will be a losing proposition in the long run. He very well could have AA or QQ and has decided to call regardless of whatever story you're trying to tell

if he is a solid player opening from ep, there is no reason to believe he is ever weak here, so i'd generally just fold otf.

If you have a bad laggy player to your right opening every pot and firing a cbet on every board, then thats a different story
1-2 NL: 3 Barrel Bluff ?? Quote
11-20-2012 , 09:11 PM
Thank you for the reply.

During the hand I felt as if I was making decent plays on each street given everything I was trying to figure out. I was at a good spot mentally when this hand came up and I was thinking clearly given my current level of skill. If that makes sense.

The raise on the flop seemed like a good play given all the circumstances. I felt strongly that he did not have a King. I also felt he would not be suprised if I raised a King immediatly on the flop.

The bet on the turn after the third felt like a good bet at the time to represent the flush after I had raised the flop. That and the fact that I repped a King or the flush draw hard on the flop made me think this was the best play when he checked the turn to me after the third came.

The river bet I really had a hard time with as I said in my original post. But I felt it was a shot worth taking, although to be honest I do not play this hand anywhere near this a few months ago. At the point the river comes a blank and he checks to me again I felt as if I needed to make a play at this pot. I thought there was a good chance given this opponent he would fold most of his range.

This was a really big hand for me because it was a hand I thought thru the entire way. This is not always the case with me. I also even tried think *ahead of the play by anticipating the next action of both me and my opponent. That is also not always the case with me.

I do not disagree that I may have not played optinally but I do really take pride in the fact that I was really in the monent and trying to *think my way thru the hand.

Thanks again fof your reply.

Last edited by GameBreaker; 11-20-2012 at 09:18 PM.
1-2 NL: 3 Barrel Bluff ?? Quote
11-20-2012 , 09:32 PM
Guy is an idiot not a solid player.
1-2 NL: 3 Barrel Bluff ?? Quote
11-20-2012 , 11:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLikeCaliDonks
Guy is an idiot not a solid player.

Do you think V's fold is that bad? I feel that if this hand was posted from V's prospective, it would look like a good fold OTR. How much of Hero's range is V ahead of at the river?
1-2 NL: 3 Barrel Bluff ?? Quote
11-21-2012 , 12:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by B&E
Do you think V's fold is that bad? I feel that if this hand was posted from V's prospective, it would look like a good fold OTR. How much of Hero's range is V ahead of at the river?
Just ignore him.
@OP I don't like the bluff. But if you're going to raise flop you have to bet turn and river.
Most of the time in vils eyes people won't raise trups on the flop. (I do all the time, just for this reason)

I think if the diamond doesn't come you get looked up a lot.
1-2 NL: 3 Barrel Bluff ?? Quote
11-21-2012 , 12:43 AM
Pretty bad fold by V, I put him on AA/QQ/JJ/TT or a K before reading your spoiler and I wouldn't have folded any of those hands the way this played out. . The fact that it's heads up and there are two K's on the board makes it much less likely that you have one of the K's and the fact is that most people aren't raising or chasing flush draws on a paired board because it's usually lighting money on fire. What is the purpose of calling the turn just to fold the river? I know he had the Ad, but folding for a half PSB is pretty bad. A PSB bluff would have been much better...most V's are going to call your river bet with AA.
1-2 NL: 3 Barrel Bluff ?? Quote
11-21-2012 , 01:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GameBreaker

Flop comes KK3
Villian leads out for $15.

At this point I do not believe he would bet a king.
But I do believe he thinks I might raise if I have a King.
I have been playing very straight forward and earlier played a big hand very fast that he saw me show down. I also think he may put me on a flush draw and that gives me the option of betting the turn if the third comes.
That was my basic thinking anyway....
So are you repping a FD or a K with your flop raise, because you can't really have both here. If villain can assign you either or then he probably isn't that good. Let's say you could rep both, If you had the king, the third diamond would maybe slow you down, even if it didn't on the turn it would probably get you to c/c river. You say you played only 2 or 3 premiums in the first 2 hours but want villain to believe you are capable or raising a cbet with a FD? I don't particularly consider that to be "straight forward" play. It would have to be a naked FD because the flop is not coordinated to have combo draws.

I think it is fine to still pull bluffs like these against the RIGHT type of player. His turn line imo is very indicative of him thinking he is behind but he can catch up on the river. In other words, AdX. As played I guess you have to push the river as it doesn't seem like he thought about your holdings.
On a final note i'd advise to generally give up on the flop when your initial plan with a pocket pair is to setmine.
1-2 NL: 3 Barrel Bluff ?? Quote
11-21-2012 , 12:13 PM
I'm also calling preflop. Setmining against a solid player will not necessarily be too profitable, but I'm guessing it will still be profitable enough, plus we'll have position.

If I was going to get tricky, I might just flat the flop to try to take it away on the turn (we can rep a diamond on the turn or a K on a blank turn), especially since us calling this flop might be scary for the villain and we can see if he checks to us on the turn. Anyhoo, once he calls my flop raise, I'm getting a little worried.

If we're going to rep the diamond on the turn, then I think our turn bet was too small. The pot is $110 and we only bet $40. I'd bet closer to pot to actually flex our FE.

When villain calls our flop and turn bets, he most likely has what we are trying to rep (a hand like AK who is a little scared of a fullhouse / flush, or a flush that is a little scared of the fullhouse). I don't like our thinking at all by putting him on AA/QQ/JJ; these hands have given up by now, imo. Our chances of barrelling him off these strong trips / flush hands are slim. I give up on the river, and even though I think it's highly unlikely our hand is good, we might have slight showdown value against a non-believing Ax flush draw.

GcluelessNLnoobG
1-2 NL: 3 Barrel Bluff ?? Quote
11-21-2012 , 01:07 PM
Bet more OTT if you want to rep a flush or a K.
1-2 NL: 3 Barrel Bluff ?? Quote
11-21-2012 , 01:36 PM
Have only read the OP post but not the results.

PF – calling 44 deep is fine.

OTF – given the paired board it is unlikely the V hit this flop, so rather than bloat the pot, I’d call and evaluate the turn. Yes, your hand is vulnerable to many danger cards OTT, but I think pot control > turn card risk since you only have a small pp. If they barrel, then fold and give credit.

Turn – if you want to rep the flush, the sizing needs to be larger. Also, if you think your opponent is solid, QQ/JJ are not calling.

River – checking-back seems best given the opponent’s image and line. You have some SD value but are likely beat most of the time.

In general, try to play smaller pots with good players, larger pots with less skilled opponents. This pot is way too large to go to war with 44 vs. the image assigned your opponent.
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11-21-2012 , 06:38 PM
I would possibly use this line if I had an extremly tight image at the table but is very villain dependent at the same time. I would bet more like 60 ott and 130 otr if I chose to run this bluff. I would probably table the bluff after he folds to get called down lighter then normal the rest of the night
1-2 NL: 3 Barrel Bluff ?? Quote
11-21-2012 , 08:58 PM
this is where i always get in trouble and get called by a donk...its hard to say this is a bad play when it worled but most of the time you prob get a tilted "if you got it you got it" type of call...the only thing i think is weird about your line is the board is paired and there is a flush so on the river most people wouldnt want to bet unless they had a full house it seems sort of unlikely you raise on a draw then fire both the turn and river...if u really just had a K you would almost certainly check the river with the flush out there so on the river its like the flush, or 33 and y would 33 raise the flop? AND he has the Ad if he realized that he might be more likely to call since u cant have the nut flush makes it less likely you bet the river...in conclusion the play work and i think u played it well but i wouldnt get to crazy with 3 barrell bluffs at 1-2 it normal is a bad idea but, NH.
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11-21-2012 , 11:56 PM
i think your logic that villain never has a King here is way off. if you are going to raise flop I would probably bet turn a little larger. as played I don't mind the tripple barrel but I think this is fancy play syndrome and you put yourself in a situation that you didn't have to be in. there are many better spots to bluff than this one, and your play is likely insanely high variance.

also I don't know the type of player you are, but a lot of people at 1/2 don't raise their flush draws, or raise and valuebet Kx on a 3flush board for for turn and river, so you aren't really repping a whole lot unless you have a very good established dynamic. I would honestly think about hero calling you pretty thin in this spot if I were villain.
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11-22-2012 , 12:19 AM
Thank you all for your time in responding. I have read and re-read all the posts and it certainly is alot to think about. I never really understood how much benefit posting a hand for discussion could afford me. It really has helped me think about some things I might not have otherwise. Thanks again.
1-2 NL: 3 Barrel Bluff ?? Quote
11-22-2012 , 02:53 PM
Dont like it. You gave him 3 to 1 on the river or better and this will get called waaaaay too often. You ran into a nit and it worked. hard to do at low limit.

Also dont like it since he can have a flush and still be afraid of it and call only.

Too many ways to lose this pot, but the small riverbet cinches it as a "not so hot bluff" IMO.
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11-22-2012 , 03:06 PM
Grunch w/o reading the spoiler.

An allegedly solid player is almost never folding a better hand on the river or calling with a worse hand.
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