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1-2 Missed value KK 1-2 Missed value KK

07-26-2015 , 11:50 AM
I know I missed value on river for sure, but what about the turn? How would you have played the hand and what's your thought process here? Much appreciated

185$ effective. Hero tight image. V1 young lag strattled. Hero didn't realize strattle in effect. Hero MP with KK raise $10. OMC on button and villain call.
Flop($32) Js8s8c
V1 checks, hero bets $15, OMC folds. V1 snap calls.
Turn ($62) 5d
V1 leads $30, hero calls
River ($92) 8h
V1 leads $30 hero calls
1-2 Missed value KK Quote
07-26-2015 , 02:08 PM
Idk your cardroom but I would raise more pre with KK so action doesn't go multi-way.

This is flop is good for us, as any J will call, some PPs too. We're a little worried about straight and flush draws but let's not stress about that yet because it's not made. I'd bet at least 2/3-full pot to inflate pot, charge draws.

Lets say 20$. V1 is still calling for 5 more so the pot is 72$ on turn. 5d is a complete brick. If V1 has a J and called flop, he's not about to fold yet. Still going with 2/3 pot so 45$-50$ leaves us 100$ behind for river bet. If V1 calls pot will be 172$ on river making a 100$ bet super standard.

The 8 river doesnt change a damn thing again because if V had an 8, he already has us beat. His 1/3 pot-size bet comes off as a blocker bet. I guess he had a J and didnt want you to bet more. As played I would not be calling, I would be raising to maybe min-raise to 60$ or 100$.
1-2 Missed value KK Quote
07-26-2015 , 02:45 PM
I'd raise more pre. $10 opening raise is just inviting multiple callers.

AP, bet more OTF. Say $20-24ish.

I'm fine with the flat on the turn.

The river is a good card for us. His 1/3 PSB really looks blockish, like a moderate J trying to get to SD cheaply. Pretty easy raise to $100-130ish. Every once in a blue moon he'll show up with an oddly played 8, but more often you'll scoop.
1-2 Missed value KK Quote
07-26-2015 , 03:02 PM
I would have def raise a little more had I realized there was a strattle. That was an in game error on my part. But what do you raise here? Had I properly noticed the strattle I would have made it $13 as it was folded to me. I personally don't mind a few callers because I have the best hand and I want the most value.
1-2 Missed value KK Quote
07-26-2015 , 03:41 PM
Without straddle make it 10,12,15 really depends on table dynamics. In my cardroom 10$ will go 4ways+ to a flop.

With a straddle make it 16,20. 13$ with a 4$ isn't enough. You'll get 1+ callers. Straddler will complete with anything. It's dangerous.

I didn't read tha V1 actually lead turn. Call is OK. Raise also works. Depends on your preflop plan. Personnally with KK and that flop. I want to get stacks in and double up, so I'd play it fast.
1-2 Missed value KK Quote
07-26-2015 , 04:53 PM
Even without a straddle I'd raise more PF ($15). With a straddle, I'd be raising to $20-$25 in this spot.

Flop C-bet is too small, make it $20-$25.

As played, river is a clear value raise. Jx isn't folding, and 8x is extremely unlikely, especially given V's sizing. V only has ~$100 behind after his river bet, so I'm shoving here.
1-2 Missed value KK Quote
07-26-2015 , 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickTheNit
Without straddle make it 10,12,15 really depends on table dynamics. In my cardroom 10$ will go 4ways+ to a flop.

With a straddle make it 16,20. 13$ with a 4$ isn't enough. You'll get 1+ callers. Straddler will complete with anything. It's dangerous.

I didn't read tha V1 actually lead turn. Call is OK. Raise also works. Depends on your preflop plan. Personnally with KK and that flop. I want to get stacks in and double up, so I'd play it fast.
Maybe we fundamentally disagree or I'm wrong about how to play big PP and building a pot. I would rather have 2-3 callers at $12 a person vs 1 caller at $15 w/ KK AA AK
1-2 Missed value KK Quote
07-26-2015 , 06:32 PM
Too bad about the missed straddle. U could have made it $20 to go and the hand would have played so differently. I think I'm making the flop bet a little more, but not so much more that it changes the dynamics of the hand.

Odd that the villian would lead after a seemingly irrelevant turn card. I like the flat there because it's so weird.

River card is a thing of beauty for ur hand. You only lose to AA, JJ and random 8s. Do u think the villian would have 3 bet ur small raise in his straddled pot with AA / JJ? I do

So u only lose to weird 8s. I'm shoving or value betting if I think I can get a call out of a J10 type hand
1-2 Missed value KK Quote
07-26-2015 , 06:57 PM
As played I would actually raise the turn to take back the initiative. Doesn't have to be a big raise, maybe to something like $75. That way on the river you can bet somewhere around $130+..... The villain basically gave you another bet on the turn that you could have snowballed into getting stacks in on the river.
1-2 Missed value KK Quote

      
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