V about 300: sat down with a short stack of 100. Doubled up on a KK vs QQ hand. Raised about once every two orbs

Hero about 500: I've been with any suited 2gappers+, 22+, Ax and any two broadway. This is the tightest most passive table I've ever seen. Idk if everyone was card dead or what... Out of all of my raises and cbets and it was ALOT, I've been called twice, when I won with 88 and AA vs AK and the guy hit a K on the flop.

Hand :

I raise 15 in mp with 34s. 2 callers, some dude and V.
Flop 844r
Some dude checks, V donks for 30. I call, some dude folds.
Turn J, still rainbow. V bets 40, I make it 100 even, he hesitates a bit then calls
River K, V checks
I think for a sec then check. I turn up my hand. He shows an 8 them mucks.

What's the best move on the river here? How was my entire line?

Don't post results. Your check on the river is actually mind blowing. Don't understand it at all. MUBSY about 88 JJ or KK?

Villain should only have ~60 left. After he calls the turn then checks the river I'm putting him on a one pair hand and putting in some type of value bet,most likely the rest of his stack.

You're going to run into a lot of these situations playing live, damned if you do and damned if you don't. Most likely villain is folding anyway but you have to bet the river if nothing else to keep villain guessing.

For sure missed value here OP, why are we checking the river?

I mean, you raised it up with 34 suited just to flop gin like this and then your letting your villain easy/cheap off the hook on the river?

When you flop trips with those smallcards, its extremely powerful- because your opponents will refuse to believe you have it. River is an easy bet for value from my point of view.

Yes, you missed value. If you think he's got an 8 bet something super small, if you think he ran into 2 pair with the 8 & a K or J, bet what he has left.

Oops, forgot that I should have left the results off. No way to edit the post?

Ahhh, I agree with you. Honestly I was scared of JJ or KK after he called the raise and donked the flop. And after the K lands I'm guessing he's not callin with any one pair. Unless he specifically put me on AQ. And I specifically put him on j8 or K8

Or maybe he had j8, in which case I feel like a douche. But if he didn't believe I had anything and was willing to call a river bet, I'd think he would've repopped the turn or led the river incase I gave up...

Top two pair is definitely calling a river bet if that's your thinking. A bare 8 might not play because the K counterfeits villains hand (if he puts you on AK for example).

Just curious why you would check the river?

opening 34s from mp at 1/2 is just.... lol

Its not unusual to get afraid of JJ or KK when the pot gets bigger,if your not familiar to it. You have already made the first step: admitting your fear and made a discussionthread here. So dont feel bad about it OP, even though you get flamed Sure, he can have one of those hands and even trips with better kicker.

But, he can also have a lots of hands that you beat (wich is much more likely than JJJ or KKK)- and thats why your losing value big time with a river check.

I encourage you to circle your thinking process more around ranges of hands, instead of spesific hands. Because its nearly impossible and not very constructive to try and soulread your villains for one spesific hand. And at the same time dont fall into the trap of giving your opponent credit for thinking about poker the same way you are: that is a very big error. Because you woudnt call the river here with a one pair hand if you were in villains shoes-doesent really mean that your actual villain will not call with weaker holdings.

Sorry, I should have used a comma when I mentioned j8 and k8. I was speaking hypothetically when I said I can only see betting the river if I thought he had one of those hands... Which I didn't.

My reason for not betting is that I couldn't put him on a hand that I was ahead of, that would call. My thinking may def have been wrong. I'm trying to get a grasp of how I should've thought through that river decision. Or my entire line actually.

Do you think that's bad given the table description? Maybe too wide from that position?

Thanks for the awesome insight. What you mention is kind of something I feel like is going to be a eureka moment when I can fully wrap my head the concept. Giving the V a range and making a decision based upon that. Also not psyching myself out baded upon what i believe to be the V's mindset.

Also, you might wanna keep this in mind. I personally am not willing to show that I am capable of opening with 34 unless the V is willing to pay big for that information.

Glad i could help and that you feel my feedback was worth something to you- thats pretty much all i care about when i join a discussion or writing my thoughts down.

When i started to being able to range people during hands and plan out my hands based on that, it was a major breakthrough for me- not to forget about dont giving your villains credit for good pokerskills before they actually prove it to you.

Looking forward to reading more from you in the future and in wich direction you feel your game is going. Keep it up

It's gonna be hard to win with that style when you're only going for 2 streets of value when you actually hit those hands.

Grunch:

Raise flop small, let's us get a lot more $ in by river. As played bet like
2/3 pot on river

At higher stakes vs thinking player I bet more on river so he thinks I am trying to rep the k... But yeah, aside from river ck not a bad line but I like flop raise, especially given how active you've been...

Not betting this river= 3 hrs of missed 1/2 hourly IMO

This.

But if you must, def have to bet the river.

Buster65 Re: 1/2 - Missed value?

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Also, you might wanna keep this in mind. I personally am not willing to show that I am capable of opening with 34 unless the V is willing to pay big for that information.

This - per your report you have been successfully stealing yet still have a premium image. So twofold problem, leaving value on the table and removing the opportunity to muck this junk - if he folds or in the unlikely case he did have JJ/KK and rolls it first. (In the last case, image preservation wise for th session might be worth the $60 to send yours in the muck and say nice hand!)

+1. Raise flop.

Grunch
He has 155 left? I am betting that when checked to. Also raising flop on this board to get value from most pp's and 8x. AP you don't even mind if he folds to your 1/2 PSB to preserve your image. Seriously though raising 34 in MP is a terrible play. Leave the stealing of blinds till you are in LP

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using 2+2 Forums

Thanks folks! Some real gems here.

This is the first time i've heard of image preservation... makes a ton of sense though. Thx jpthefish.

And I definitely agree with others; if I'm gonna make a sketchy play in raising 34s MP, I gotta at least maximize the profit to make up for the long term unprofitability!

When you actually open 34 and get a gin flop like that, sometimes were afraid to raise because we don't want to "scare them off". But at these levels, they will find a way to put you on overcards. Or they have an 8 so they think "i have top pair". Obviously this is all Villain dependent, but you want to make it look like you actually have AK here. This will only work if you are semi active though. If youve been folding for orbits on end and then suddenly open 34 and flop trips, raising a donk bet will look like an OP.

Don't open 34. The hand is just awful.