Been playing at table for about an hour with villain he has only 3 bet twice. One time 3 bet shipping AA, and another time with A4ss in CO after loose MP raised to $7 with two callers behind. Seems like young good player. No real reads
I've been opening button about 30-40%
And would consider my image as a little Lag
On the the hand:
Hero: $850
Villain: $420
UTG +1 limps folds to me on button. I raise to $10 with 910dd
Villain in BB 3 bets to $25. I call
Pot ($50) flop comes QQ4dd
Villain leads for $35
I call
Pot ($120) Turn comes Js
Villain checks
I check
Pot ($120) River comes 10h
Villain leads for $80....
Tough spot. I'd range him at AA, KK, QQ, AQ, AK, JJ, 1010, and a decent amount of bluffs. The reason for the large percentage of bluffs is:
1. We know he's capable of 3-betting light.
2. A large chunk of our range is 55-99, so villain is in a good bluffing situation since it's so tough to call a bet with a middle pair here and 3 overcards.
I think I'd weight his range a bit more toward the stronger hands pre due to the small sizing. It's an abnormally small 3-bet...like he wants to keep us in.
I'd fold. Even though he has a good bluffing spot, we just lose to too much...
Tough spot. I'd range him at AA, KK, QQ, AQ, AK, JJ, 1010, and a decent amount of bluffs. The reason for the large percentage of bluffs is:
1. We know he's capable of 3-betting light.
2. A large chunk of our range is 55-99, so villain is in a good bluffing situation since it's so tough to call a bet with a middle pair here and 3 overcards.
I think I'd weight his range a bit more toward the stronger hands pre due to the small sizing. It's an abnormally small 3-bet...like he wants to keep us in.
I'd fold. Even though he has a good bluffing spot, we just lose to too much...
Like your thinking here. I was actually villain here with 75hh and got called on river. Planned on giving up after being called on flop but when he checked back turn it was face up that he had some kind of FD or pocket pair. 10 river made so many possibilities as well I had to fire.
Why are you 3-betting from the BB against a compitent player who is never folding here? Albeit once was with AA but you're showing a really high 3 bet frequency (3 times in roughly a hour at LLSNL is an awful lot) and I can't expect him to ever lay down and why do you want to play a bloated pot oop with a rag hand?
Plus when the guy checks back the turn its fairly obv he has equity on this board and is taking a pot controlled line. You either have to continue your bluff ott and continue to rep a wired pair or just gove up and stop the bleeding. Once you check the turn here it doesn't make a river bet very reputable.
Why are you 3-betting from the BB against a compitent player who is never folding here? Albeit once was with AA but you're showing a really high 3 bet frequency (3 times in roughly a hour at LLSNL is an awful lot) and I can't expect him to ever lay down and why do you want to play a bloated pot oop with a rag hand?
I have no problem playing post against a thinking Loose passive player OOP. He played straightforward and wasn't aggressive. And I 3 bet hands like that to acquire a range/ stay balanced.
Plus when the guy checks back the turn its fairly obv he has equity on this board and is taking a pot controlled line. You either have to continue your bluff ott and continue to rep a wired pair or just gove up and stop the bleeding. Once you check the turn here it doesn't make a river bet very reputable.
Disagree completely. I could easily have KK, AA, JJ, 1010, AK. Tell me why I couldn't have AA,KK and check turn to pot control then get value on river. Tell me why I can't spike a boat on turn and check to induce or let the guy catch up. Best of all that 10 river made AK and 1010 believable.
Your 3 bet range is ready established as pretty wide by the A4 hand. Including a worse hand there isn't balancing it you're expanding it. Plus you already tried running an elaborate bluff that didn't work. I could understand if you said he was a spewtard, you're very deep and you're trying to play a big pot but you don't need to make this three bet for the reasons you said against a player that probably thinks you're a maniac.
Disagree completely. I could easily have KK, AA, JJ, 1010, AK. Tell me why I couldn't have AA,KK and check turn to pot control then get value on river. Tell me why I can't spike a boat on turn and check to induce or let the guy catch up. Best of all that 10 river made AK and 1010 believable.
I don't know why you would pot control that board with AA or KK there or why you wouldn't bet 1010 or AK. He probably felt the same way, that's why he called.
You don't pot control OTT to get value on the river, that's called playing tricky or trapping. You PC to be able to call a bet size you are comfortable with.
Your 3 bet range is ready established as pretty wide by the A4 hand. Including a worse hand there isn't balancing it you're expanding it. Plus you already tried running an elaborate bluff that didn't work. I could understand if you said he was a spewtard, you're very deep and you're trying to play a big pot but you don't need to make this three bet for the reasons you said against a player that probably thinks you're a maniac.
The A4 hand I 3 bet to $35 and short BB jammed for $47 I called we chopped.
And what elaborate bluff? I think your confusing yourself with the post I was the villian look how villian is described I was playing fairly tight up till A4 hand the lag was the "actual villian" sorry for confusion I wanted thoughts from my opponents perspective
Calling the 3b with his 3b sizing + these stacks is fine.
Your line is fine and as played river is a fold.
With a read we might be able to play this hand differently... not many 1/2 players are 3betting any hand with a Q, raising the flop is not a bad idea but you would have to barrel any turn.
Actually in retrospect if we are unable to raise a flop like this, then we should not be calling preflop.
Calling the 3b with his 3b sizing + these stacks is fine.
Your line is fine and as played river is a fold.
With a read we might be able to play this hand differently... not many 1/2 players are 3betting any hand with a Q, raising the flop is not a bad idea but you would have to barrel any turn.
Actually in retrospect if we are unable to raise a flop like this, then we should not be calling preflop.
I just feel like its an example of doing more than you need to in a game that doesn't warrant it. When I read the initial post I put you (the villain) on a PP and were either
1.) going for value with a big PP (my least likely conclusion)
2.) going for thin value with 55-99 ( my most likely conclusion)
3.) barreling bc of weakness shown on the turn ( next most likely )
Now the thin value part really treads the line on turning a hand like 66 or lower into a bluff to fold out say 77 or 88, or merge to get a small Pp or A high to hero.
"j/k, I was actually the villain" threads are a bad idea because the only question they ask is "is the other player bad". As it turns out, yes the other player is bad and his call was dumb. But that doesn't help you at all. You are only in control of your own game. If everyone else is playing dumb, you playing in a manner that does not exploit that is also dumb.
Now the thin value part really treads the line on turning a hand like 66 or lower into a bluff to fold out say 77 or 88, or merge to get a small Pp or A high to hero.
That's way to thin. But by the looks of everyone so far I'm getting folds
"j/k, I was actually the villain" threads are a bad idea because the only question they ask is "is the other player bad". As it turns out, yes the other player is bad and his call was dumb. But that doesn't help you at all. You are only in control of your own game. If everyone else is playing dumb, you playing in a manner that does not exploit that is also dumb.
True logic I won't deny but I guess I'm having a little trouble going from online to live and have to realize that at 1/2 I should be just getting value from these players?
Well, yes and no. Generally people will call small bets too wide and fold too much to large ones. Regardless of pot size or what your range should be or things like that, because low stakes live players are thinking about nothing but their own two cards.
Value betting well is definitely the key to winning at live poker but there are spots to bluff too. You really need experience, it's way different than online.
I just don't like barreling this river when the guy checking back the turn shows that he has equity in this pot. As DK said, guys call too often at these stakes ESPECIALLY when they can get to showdown for that bet. Only equity he has on the turn that is folding to this river bet is a missed FD. If he's calling that 10 he probably wasn't folding 88 either so I just don't see how you can expect him to give you credit for the top of your range here which really are the only hands that beat him OTR and fold anything with showdown value
Live 1/2 amateurs and the break even/slightlyosing regs are worse than micro stakes online players. They are not thinking that deeply about your entire range. This guy is thinking:
You probably don't have a Q
Unless you hit the J or have AK he has you beat
AA and KK are hard to get
I haz top pair if he didn't hit the jack which he would probably continue betting the turn if he bluffed the flop.
And that thought process is giving a lot of credit to someone who seems like a fish by your description.
Live 1/2 amateurs and the break even/slightlyosing regs are worse than micro stakes online players. They are not thinking that deeply about your entire range. This guy is thinking:
You probably don't have a Q
Unless you hit the J or have AK he has you beat
AA and KK are hard to get
I haz top pair if he didn't hit the jack which he would probably continue betting the turn if he bluffed the flop.
And that thought process is giving a lot of credit to someone who seems like a fish by your description.
I see what your saying but your kind of being hypocritical by saying you would call here with pp's and such against an unknown who has played 4 hands in the hour
