Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmo0th10
.... Feel free to rip my thoughts
I don't like limping a value hand like 55 (am I overvaluing my hand against his limp range?) behind a lose player who we have position on. If we limp we are likely seeing a flop 4-5ways minimum and might not have position on everyone. I will have no idea where I am in the hand. ....
this is where you are having problems, firstly you are thinking of 55 as a value hand when it is not, it is a set mining hand. 2nd, that is the kind of hand you WANT to play multiway because that increasing the probability of you stacking someone if you bink a set. You need to google "set mining in poker" as you do not understand the concept and why set mining is profitable...
As with "having no idea where I am at in a hand". With baby pairs in multiway pots you know exactly where you are at. Either you hit your set and you are monster or you missed and you fold. Easy peezy...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmo0th10
........
Normally my 11 iso is going heads up with V, unfortunately this time I got 3 callers,...
I have no idea what universe you play in, but an $11 bet in 1/2nl or 1/3nl is peanuts and that isn't isolating anyone. Seriously, you think someone has QTo or 98s or A4s or 88 or JTo and faces an $11 bet and thinks, "Man, I better fold..." HELL NO!!!!
Fish didn't drive 35 minutes to the casino on their one night off for the week to fold. Unless you are playing poker with a table full of SSN grinding blue haired ladies and OMC nits, you can never count on an $11 raise "isolating" at a LLSNL table. Seriously, you are delusional here and have some serious selective memory bias going on. Sorry I come off as a condescending dick here but your just flat out mistaken here in your thinking about "isolating". This is going hand in hand with your overvaluing 55 as a value hand. You are WAYYYYyyyy off there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmo0th10
....
With only 1 limp from a lose and weaker player I want to iso him and play heads up where I am much more likely to win with 55 against his wide limping range. Also when I smash the flop like I did and he hits as well, now I can set up to stack him 200+bb deep. Stack size definitely had a lot to do with the iso, if he has $150 or less, probably limping.
You mish mashing up concepts again. With 55 you want to limp against as many players are possible. Also, I don't think you properly understand how set mining works. The theory behind set mining is that you KNOWINGLY call when someone has a big hand because then when you hit THEN you get paid off. However, if you are the one isolating against a weak player and THEN you hit your set, how in the hell is said weak player going to have a strong enough hand to play for stacks??? See the Catch-22 here????
However, if you were to limp in a multiway pot and THEN hit your set, there is a good chance someone else hit two pair or a strong enough draw to pay you off. That probability goes up with each additional player in the hand...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmo0th10
...
Btw not sure how much this matters, but V was not very aggro or tricky. He made the weird play I posted in the OP, but he was the one calling not betting.
So V is a calling station meaning that if you bet and he calls odds are he has "something" and if you have a baby pair his something is usually going to be enough to beat you. I mean, lets say V has Q
9
Flop: A
5
9
is this V paying you off on 3 streets on this board? No.
How about
Flop: A
8
9
you bet, V calls, now what? If you keep firing V is still calling you down because he's ******ed. So how does your 55 work for you in this situation?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmo0th10
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So all in all, I like my hand enough to iso a lose limping range in position. I am likely to see 4 free cards for $11 if I choose to, against a wide range. And I did suspect I had some FE on later streets say if the flop came 3,4,6 and I wanted to barrel twice or more. He didn't seem to be a super donkey who was never ever folding, although he was a drooling station in the OP hand. He was the agressor in 1-2 hands where he slowed down on later streets and had to fold to pressure. Although this wasn't my intention. I wasn't planning on bluffing V, I was isoing for value.
I think you may be biased by your own awesomeness. We have a very clear hand history of V being a monkey ******ed drooling station yet somehow in your mind you think you are awesome enough to somehow generate fold equity against said spewtard and make him fold.
Stop and think about that for a moment, let it sink in.
We have to check our egos at the door.
Our villains play the way they play because that is how they play. The worst thing we can do is let our egos fool us into thinking we can bend the laws of donk physics and make them play the way we want them to just because we are in the hand... No. They play the way they play and you are dreaming if you think you have fold equity against that drooler.
Just sayin... You need a reality check here and there is no nice way to say it.
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Overall, I like your willingness to think outside the box some, you just need to have a better understanding of some fundamental concepts. Google the stuff I suggested.
GL