Reads: V1 is a middle aged black woman who is new to the table. Seems TAG, but only based on like 15 minutes of observation. V2 is an older white guy who I've played with quite a bit. He's a regular, and I'd describe him as a good TAG/LAG. Probably a bit loose preflop than a standard TAG, and pretty aggro post flop. He does NOT need the nuts to raise bets post flop. He was felted about 30 minutes ago in a big 3-way pot when he turned a straight (which also completed the flush).

He had J9 on a Q89 10(turn) board and made a $100 raise against a $25 bet. Was up against two flushes.

I complete 72 from the SB after V1 limped from MP and V2 limped from the button. One other loose-passive player limped from the CO. I'd fold if off suit btw. BB checks and flop comes 1075. I have $100 and both villains cover me. Checks to V1 who bets $10 into $10. Loose-passive CO calls and V2 makes it $25.

Hero?

You complete here with 72d and dont know what to do when you flop the nuts?

Considering Villain 2s range you are a coinflip vs top pair hands and hands like AdJd. You are an underdog vs 8d6d and a pretty decent underdog to 9d8d and 2pair or better hands. That's only vs 1 villain. If Villain 2 has a flush draw and Villain 1 can't throw away top pair or better (which is quite often at this level) then you are pretty much screwed in this spot.

Anyways, seems like a very poor spot to bluff raise and a pretty easy fold considering the action that has occurred.

On a side note, I'd be willing to put money that this woman is not a TAG and that the other player is not good. Do you not see how bad one has to be to raise with J9 on a QT98ccc board?!?!

Not quite the nuts. Against, for example, A10o and the nut flush draw, I'm only 15.5% to win.

Against 44 and the NFD, I'm less than 2%. Of course against two Ace-tens I'm in incredible shape (about 50%).

Against a range of
77,44,AdJd,ATs,Ad9d,Ad8d,Ad6d,Ad5d,KdQd,KdJd,KTs,Q Ts,JTs,Jd9d,9d8d,6d5d,ATo,KTo,QTo,JTo

For EACH player, I'm at 34.807% equity. They are each at 32.6% equity. Assuming I have zero fold equity:

EV all in = .34807*$220 - .652*$100 = $76.6 - $65.2 = +$11.4

I'm assuming the loose passive always folds though, they are always call with decent 10-X (J10 though A10). I'm also not including 1010 (top set) since there was no raise pre.

Fold pre.

This is almost the best board you could hope for, pair + FD, and you're in a tough spot ... so fold pre.

I think I just fold on this flop with this much action. I suspect that one of them has a T, and the other has a FD better than yours. So you're likely to be beat if you hit the FD, and beat if you don't. Fold.

I'd add T7s/o and 75s/o to their ranges for your calculation as well ... many will limp either of those for $2.

How are they each at 32.6% when there are 3 of them? MP bet, CO called, BTN raised.

Like I said, I'm kind of ignoring the CO. It's extremely unlikely he has a set or two pair, and he's very loose passive postflop. He could easily have bottom pair or a gutshot straight draw and he'll usually fold.

After adding thso hands, my equity is at 34.638%.

+1. especially bolded, which is important since we make most our decisions based off our opponents.

Fold pre...wtf are you hoping for, a 772 flop?

Or flopping a flush...or two pair...or trip 2/7s, or middle pair plus a draw. If it was off suit, I'd fold.

As played, does about 34% equity sound about right when all in against these two?

Your chances of flopping a flush are less than 2% and usually won't get paid off when you do. Sounds like you are playing super fish poker hoping to hit the lottery out of position. Play deeper, fold this garbage, and save your $1. All of those $1's add up over time and you aren't getting many of them back.

Well most people here are saying fold pre, I agree but lets move on past it. IMO you have 2 choices shove or fold. You have 73 left if you just call. My personal play would be to fold and just take the $2 loss. But if there is any thought supporting playing the hand out you should shove and just hope for the best.

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You cant move pat pre flop. Unless you want to get worse at poker and not better. Pre flop is absolutely disgusting

Do you know what the worst starting hand is in full-ring No-Limit Texas Hold´em?

You think you do, but you don´t.

Nope.

Not that one.

Not that either.

Give up?



It´s 2 7.

Yep, 2 7.


What do you mean, "You know"?

Then what the hell are you doing playing that ****?

Hmm, don't you look like a super tight player to villains when you won't even call "just a dollar more to see the flop"? I'm asking, not telling btw.

Is it more profitable to lose a dollar most of the time except when you hit the flop hard (and sometimes still have to fold when you do hit it) for image purposes or is it better to save the dollars over time, never hit the flop hard, and hurt your image?

I'm not leveling or anything, I'm new and asking. I was told to always call for $1 from the SB for image purposes vs multiple opponents at 1/2. Thanks!

Pretty much this was my first reaction.

What if only 1 of them calls you?

lol at worrying about image at 1/2. Just fold trash from the SB.

It´s the wrong adjustment, that´s all.

What is going wrong that makes you think that you need to complete in SB with any two?

Are people folding too much against you when you bet or raise? In that case, start raising and cbetting more hands until they realise you cannot always have it.

If it makes you feel nitty and self-conscious, simply look straight at the BB when you fold, as though you are really interested in his action. This diverts attention from you plenty. Just do it quickly. People don´t give a **** if you´re in the hand, they just wanna see the flop.

Here's my reasoning for completing so loose from the SB:

I'm getting 9-1 pot odds. If everyone else was all-in for $2, I'd need 10% equity to call. 72s is 11.82% against an EXTREMELY tight limping range of top 13% of hands for the three limpers and a random hand for the big blind.

That top 13% hand includes the big pairs, AK, ect. And I'm 11.82%.

Against a more realistic limping range of top 19.5% of hands with AA-JJ and AK removed, I'm 12.45%. Pokerstove is actually still computing. The percent keeps fluctuating but it's hovering around 11% and has never dipped below 10.5%.

I realize maybe we need a bit more equity than our pot odds to make up for our positional disadvantage, but how much? Also, factoring in postflop skill is important too, right?

Here, postflop, if shoving with middle pair plus a FD really is +$11 EV like my calculation said, folding is a $11 mistake. As long as I can play the 72s and make the right decisions (getting all in when +EV and folding when negative EV), I don't see the problem.

If shoving here really is +$11 EV, then those who fold preflop miss out on a profitable situation post flop.

GRUNCH:

First, add-on between hands.

I'm so/so on your call preflop. You're getting great odds, but you can't expect much. I really don't like a 7 high flush draw OOP, so I don't think suitedness should matter much here. If you actually flop a flush, you don't really have the stack to protect it. As played, I think this is an easy fold. You're certainly behind, and like I said, a 7 high flush draw isn't too sexy.

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I don't have very much live experience (LOL volume in these threads for sure), but some time within my first 50 hours of LIVE cash game play, I sat down at a table and folded my SB for $1. I never heard the end of it.

Has this not happened to anyone else? I think I was a social hermit at that table since it was one of my first ones so maybe that had something to do with it. I didn't have the sunglasses or hoodie on or anything, but I am 23 and look like I must be 17 so everyone knows I must be one of those "internet kids".

You are looking at it wrong. Hot and cold equity is not the way to look at it.

The times you "win" against those hands are times such as you hit trips or a flush by the river, which you would normally be priced out of, or making a mistake to chase. If not they are times when your opponents have nothing.

However, when you do hit big (e.g. flush or trips), AND your opponents hit, your opponents are very likely to have you absolutely crushed (higher flush, higher kicker to trips, full house vs trips), and you are likely to lose a ton.

The only way you can have the nuts on the river is by hitting quads (with 1 card). You cannot even flop the nut two pair.

Cliffs - it´s not just your equity that dictates EV.