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1/2 middle pair on the flop - which line? 1/2 middle pair on the flop - which line?

04-22-2018 , 02:06 PM
Hello,

Would like to ask you about the flop line. Which one you prefer in below hand?

Hero CO JcTc- 6max table

UTG limps, MP 4bb, Hero calls, BTN calls, UTG calls

F AsTd6h - pot 17,5bb

UTG ch, MP ch, Hero bets 9bb, BTN raise 27bb, Hero folds

MP - older ABC tourney player
BTN - loosest palyer on the table, drinking and gambling, calls too much, lost a few stacks

all stacks around 100bb

During the hand, after OR checked, I decided to stab at the pot, but when thinking about the hand I leaning towards ch/c line more than b/f.

b/f line:
- not much weaker hands will call you (I mean from UTG and MP, BTN can have hands like T9o,T7s etc.)
- if I'm agaist the Ace, I have just 20% equity (theoreticaly UTG limp/call PF range is full of weak aces them and he will also ch/c flop with them to pot control)

ch/c line:
- you encourage BTN to trying take over the pot with air, then if that happends, you are in hands with much better equity than him (cons is he can bluff you out later with position)
- if you play ch/c instead of b/f you giving yourself oportiunity to see the turn card -> 2xT,3xJ-> 5 outs -> +10% equity at turn
- there are not that much cards at the turn that you are afraid of beside K,Q(6cards, about 12% chance to hit it at T). J gives us two pair so I will treat it as my out vs all AX hands, if he had KQ and hit straight I would call it cooler and go on

With hand like KT here I'm more optimistic about betting as I dominate other Tx hands, which is not true with JT.

If the flop would came KsTd6h, I would be also happier to play b/f line, because of additional equity on the T when Q hits and also because where I play I see people love to play all kind of Ace hands.

Any comments would be appreciated

Cheers,
1/2 middle pair on the flop - which line? Quote
04-22-2018 , 02:37 PM
6 max makes it more aggressive then a full table preflop but that factor cuts down a lot once you see the flop. When it goes 5 ways to the flop any middle pair isn't much of hand. Even on the king high example it's more likely somebody is beating your JT then not.

For both potential boards check the flop. On the ace high board generally just fold to a flop bet. On the king high board it's more situational but even then remember somebody probably has a better hand then you. Only call if the bettor is known to be bluffy and nobody else is showing interest in the pot. You are a lot better taking a stab at the pot on the turn if there is still no sign of interest and the turn helps you or is a low dud.

The difference between kickers when you have second pair isn't that much because a large portion of the calling hands are top pair. Particularly on the ace high board you kicker barely makes a difference. Kickers matter more when it's likely top pair vs top pair or trips vs trips.
1/2 middle pair on the flop - which line? Quote
04-22-2018 , 03:11 PM
Once we get to a flop it all plays the same multiway. I’m check folding pretty comfortably here. How loose do the blinds play? I only ask because 6 max I’m raising a much wider range of hands and playing aggressively. jT suited in the CO would be part of that range
1/2 middle pair on the flop - which line? Quote
04-22-2018 , 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigpants
Once we get to a flop it all plays the same multiway. I’m check folding pretty comfortably here. How loose do the blinds play? I only ask because 6 max I’m raising a much wider range of hands and playing aggressively. jT suited in the CO would be part of that range
To be honest I dont remember the blinds from this hand as table lineup change rather quickly, but I believe that blinds, same as whole table, were weak passive. People played passive PF and when they catch something they won't let it go post flop, so for sure I don't like 3beting it preflop (as UTG limped and MP raised him already), because I won't be able to bluff, semibluff with speculative hand like JTs and not sure if anyone would fold to 3bet. Probably I just would get 3 calls. So raising strong holding and playing in position speclutaive hands seems superb at that table.
1/2 middle pair on the flop - which line? Quote
04-22-2018 , 04:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicBoy
To be honest I dont remember the blinds from this hand as table lineup change rather quickly, but I believe that blinds, same as whole table, were weak passive. People played passive PF and when they catch something they won't let it go post flop, so for sure I don't like 3beting it preflop (as UTG limped and MP raised him already), because I won't be able to bluff, semibluff with speculative hand like JTs and not sure if anyone would fold to 3bet. Probably I just would get 3 calls. So raising strong holding and playing in position speclutaive hands seems superb at that table.

My apologies I thought this was a limped pot. I don’t advocate a 3b! Against fish.
1/2 middle pair on the flop - which line? Quote

      
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