Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-23-2014, 05:53 PM   #26
Aces&Kings
centurion
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 180
Re: 1/2 live, gross spot middle set, deep

Once you get more nlhe cash game experience you'll realize how easy of a call this is unless you're playing against the tightest player in history who you have a substantial sample size of and know he wouldn't do this without the nuts.

98-99% of players do not fit this description btw.
Aces&Kings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2014, 06:02 PM   #27
MackCorl
grinder
 
MackCorl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: MI
Posts: 456
Just please explain why you think based on his previous actions pf and flop that villain would have AA rather than AT (which sounds really reasonable.)
MackCorl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2014, 06:05 PM   #28
KitCloudkicker
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
KitCloudkicker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 8,405
Re: 1/2 live, gross spot middle set, deep

Quote:
Originally Posted by MackCorl View Post
Just please explain why you think based on his previous actions pf and flop that villain would have AA rather than AT (which sounds really reasonable.)
mostly because i dont see how AT profitably shoves there b/c no worse hands call
KitCloudkicker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2014, 06:10 PM   #29
macktyson
grinder
 
macktyson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cali
Posts: 628
I m pretty nitty but I m snap calling there, I've seen many donks make that play with 2 pair, they hit 2 pair and it's the nuts to them.
macktyson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2014, 06:19 PM   #30
Ray Zee
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: montana usa
Posts: 17,069
Re: 1/2 live, gross spot middle set, deep

playing live at these stakes you never know what strangers will do. you have to add that into all calculations. never can you give them a precise range. too often they do whtever pops into their head at the time.

they will play aces in all sorts of ways as well as bet and call with hands you cant believe.
Ray Zee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2014, 06:21 PM   #31
Ray Zee
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: montana usa
Posts: 17,069
Re: 1/2 live, gross spot middle set, deep

plus i think op gives the villian too much credit here. ace ten is his most likely hand. you can reason that he wouldnt bet as he would because he just improved his hand. just like some players will move all in with aces when there is only a tiny pot. they dont think the same as a player does.
Ray Zee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2014, 06:48 PM   #32
Dirty313
old hand
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Grosse Pointe Shores, MI
Posts: 1,486
Re: 1/2 live, gross spot middle set, deep

43 pre

snap call

nh
Dirty313 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2014, 07:03 PM   #33
au4all
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,872
Re: 1/2 live, gross spot middle set, deep

Quote:
Originally Posted by KitCloudkicker View Post
mostly because i dont see how AT profitably shoves there b/c no worse hands call
There's no chance in hell he had AA. Think about the way he played the hand. As soon as has something he shoves. Does that person just call a bet preflop, and then not raise your 3-bet? There's no chance that AA think he's behind on the flop so why risk having it get checked around?
au4all is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2014, 01:24 AM   #34
Flushie
centurion
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Upstate- NY
Posts: 159
Re: 1/2 live, gross spot middle set, deep

Sanp it and if you are worried text me and ill stake your call
Flushie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2014, 02:24 PM   #35
gobbledygeek
Poet Laureate of LLSNL
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 32,941
Re: 1/2 live, gross spot middle set, deep

I've recently been thinking about preflop a lot regarding good overpair / TP type hands facing a raise with deepish stacks. My conclusion is that if we are cool with stacking off preflop (something I'm not 100% sure we are with KK 200bbs deep), then we really want to get in 1/6th of effective stacks so that we can comfortably stack off postflop on non-******ed boards. So, if we think we can get in 1/6th effective stacks preflop (i.e. the 3bet isn't so massive that it'll totally kill our action, unless we're ok with taking down the dead money), then go ahead and 3bet. Otherwise, I'd flat (and call/raise preflop if someone else opens up the action). A 1/6th effective stack 3bet would be to ~$65; this really isn't too outrageous (a normal 3x + callers is already $40), so I'd probably 3bet to that.

As played, I'm simply looking to build as big a pot as possible as quickly as possible. There's really only one draw, otherwise we are just hoping Villain got unlucky and flopped a good (but worse) hand, or can't get away from AK/KQ. So I'd pot the flop (although I don't despise a smaller bet).

I've lost track of the pot size, but this seems like quite a big overbet if Villain has turned the nuts; wouldn't the nuts just get it in over two streets, especially if there is no flush draw? I just think we're up against enough worse hands that think they are good (AK, KT, TT, 88, AT, A8) that we have to call here; if we're not, then suck out, obviously.

ETA: FWIW, I don't like everyone else's 3bet size. I really think that if we're going to 3bet at this level and possibility "turn our hand face up", we really have to think about the odds we're giving our villains to setmine/etc. (especially given all the dead money already in the middle). In this case, a 3bet to $45 offers the first of two villains immediate odds of almost ~2:1 ($35 to win $65), plus they are calling $35 to possibly win $355 more, which in a 3bet pot is easily going to be in play, for further implied odds of ~10:1, so overall they are getting not totally unreasonable ~12:1 odds to crack us. This is why I'd rather put in 1/6th effective stacks here, which is $65, offering immediate odds of ~1.5:1 plus sucky implied odds of ~6:1, for a total of extremely sucky ~7.5:1, where we can brain dead stack off postflop on non A high boards with two ~3/4 PSB bets.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Last edited by gobbledygeek; 01-28-2014 at 02:32 PM.
gobbledygeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2014, 02:34 PM   #36
daniel9861
veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,381
Re: 1/2 live, gross spot middle set, deep

Easy call. Heavily discount AA because of the overcall and flat call of the 3bet. He can have 88/TT/AK pretty easily, possibly AT, and we have outs if we do happen to be against the straight.

Also slightly bigger pre because live players don't come to the casino to fold.
daniel9861 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2014, 02:49 PM   #37
Redskins 47
adept
 
Redskins 47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,104
Re: 1/2 live, gross spot middle set, deep

Quote:
Originally Posted by KitCloudkicker View Post
mostly because i dont see how AT profitably shoves there b/c no worse hands call
Since when does it need to be profitable for 1-2 players to shove?

It's been said, but call it off. 200bbs isn't that deep.
Redskins 47 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2014, 03:09 PM   #38
BeakWetter
old hand
 
BeakWetter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,488
Re: 1/2 live, gross spot middle set, deep

Hi Kit,
Glad to see you are mixing in some NL as the world of LHE dries up.
One quick comment related to your posts here to aid your transition.
Don't worry as much about what how Vs will range you in 1-2. In 20-40 and even 10-20LHE this is an important aspect, but it's not as critical to 1-2.
Both player pools do dumb things, but I find the behavior ranges are wider in NL
BeakWetter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2014, 03:16 PM   #39
jpsychlady
veteran
 
jpsychlady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: New England
Posts: 2,588
Call. If you're not comfortable putting that much in with a set, then you shouldn't be playing that deep.
jpsychlady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2014, 04:20 AM   #40
Ray Zee
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: montana usa
Posts: 17,069
Re: 1/2 live, gross spot middle set, deep

its still a crying call i guess but a call as well. i think he had the ace ten. makes the most sense. but it doesnt pay to not build pots early so they get pot odds or even think they get pot odds to play with hands you may not want in with you.
Ray Zee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2014, 04:21 AM   #41
Ray Zee
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: montana usa
Posts: 17,069
Re: 1/2 live, gross spot middle set, deep

here i would bet more pre flop then would have a bigger pot to bet more on the flop and then no matter what came it was a through ticket for both.
Ray Zee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2014, 05:28 PM   #42
donkeyfhish
centurion
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 117
OMG the fold was the 2nd worse thing you did. Showing was the worst. I would run you over every time we are HU and the nuts are not in your range. LOL. Never show man, even bad players will bluff you.

Sent from my DROID4 using 2+2 Forums
donkeyfhish is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive