Hello Everyone,

Long time reader of the 2+2 forums but rarely post. However, I recently played a cash game hand that I am wanting some feedback on. Let me provide some information on the game.

1/2 NL Hold'em but game is playing more like a 2/5 game. Every player is straddling on the button and typical opening raise is to $20-$25 with flop bets being in the $40-$60 range typically. 3 players have stacks in $600-$800 range.

Hero- Mid 30s tournament player. Have had some success in tourneys but admittedly I am about a break even cash player. Some will probably say this hand is a good example why..lol. I bought in for $100 (which is my typical buy in since this is closer to stack depths I am comfortable with as a tournament player). Have been at the table for about 90 minutes and run my $100 up to about $450 by picking up a couple of big hands and having them hold up. Just won a huge pot the previous hand by turning a set of Aces and getting all in vs. a player with top 2 pair. Am still stacking chips when this hand comes up. My image is TAG and the deck is hitting me in the face right now.

Villain 1- Late 20s to early 30s. Quiet and competent player. Has not done anything out of line. Based on table conversations, others at the table respect his game and seems to be a cash game grinder. Stack of approximately $600.

Villain 2- Old man, probably in his 60s. In 90 minutes at the table I have seen this guy twice make huge all in raises with draws. First time did it with just an up and down straight draw and got 1 player to fold top pair, but did this when another was already all in. The all in player won the side pot as his pair held up vs. the draw. He raised all in for around $400 with approximately $150 in the pot. He made a similar sized raise with a flush draw and again got someone to lay down top pair. So this guy has shown a tendency to play his draws very aggressively. Has lost some pots since and his stack size is around $300.

The hand:
Villain 1 straddles on the button to $4
Villain 2 calls in small blind.
Hero calls UTG +2 with Jc 8c
3 others call the $4 straddle. Villain 1 checks his option.

Flop
Js 4h 8h

Action checks to Villain 1 on the button who bets $20.
Villain 2 re raises all in for $292 I believe.
Action is to Hero who after a few minutes of thought re-raises all in to approximately $450.


Thoughts? I want to know if my reasoning for getting involved in this pot is flawed. Obviously, when the action gets to me, I only have $4 invested in the pot. But based on the way Villain 2 has played his draws previously, I feel quite confident that he is once again on some type of draw- bare flush draw, up/down straight draw, combo draw, pair plus draw, etc. And with top 2 pair, I am fine playing a huge pot against this range.

I know there are other players in the hand to consider. My thought was that I somewhat block 8-8 and that in this game, every player in the pot raises J-J preflop. My only concern is 4-4. Villain 1 could be betting flop with a wide range of hands (KJ, QJ, J10, J9, 9-10, 9-7, flush draws, random 8s, etc.).

Constructive feedback is much appreciated. Please refrain from the "just fold preflop" comments. Thanks.

You will get better feedback by posting up to main decision point and not revealing hole cards or results.

Welcome to the forum, OP. cAmmAndo is correct, and I've edited results out.

I know that you don't want to hear it, but come on. J8 UTG+2? Would you play that horrible hand in that position in a tournament? If you did, would you overlimp it, knowing that you can only win by flopping huge? This is 100% a fold pre. In later position, you could sometime steal with it, but never flat.

AP to flop, any reason you didn't bet this when you got checked to? This checking through would be a disaster. You hit your miracle flop, bet for value.

AP, I don't hate the re-raise to iso v2 and his likely draw, but it's a very high variance play that all stems from a very bad PF call.

What garick said, fold pre, bet flop, AP gii.

No shame in locking up a win if you're deeper than comfortable.

sent from my secret chat thread

No point piling on about PF and the flop check.

As played I think this is the right play. Your two blockers are really important obv. leaving just 1 combo each of the hands that would have you dead. 44 isnt out of the question but V2 has demonstrated that he's much more likely to be doing this on draws - and there are certainly tons of those out. We don't necessarily like V1 in there.. he's in perfect spot to only call when way ahead - but it is what it is.

I'm normally not crazy about hugely high variance spots with little invested and he could have some monstor draws (T9hh) that are coin flips.... but if you put in a complete range for him you seem to be closer to 65/35 - well worth the risk.

You're typically a tourney player, and choose to buyin to a cash game for 50bb because it's near your comfort level (which is fine). Where is your threshold for where you become uncomfortable? I have to guess this lands somewhere between 50-100bb because you would buyin full otherwise. So I gotta ask first, how comfortable are you playing 200+ BB deep in an action packed 1/2 pseudo 2/5 game? Because I gotta believe this first and foremost plays into said hand.

On to the hand...

As said, don't like the call pre. Most times you just wasted $4 because if it's as action packed as you say, you're likely to see a raise behind which you definitely can't call with your hand from EP.

Why are you not betting this flop? This check sets you up in the worst possible spot. It now checks around to V1 who could be attempting a steal because it checked around, but in a 6-way pot it's not likely he's betting Jx or 8x, so his range becomes pretty polarized imo, nuts or nothing scenario. So now V2 comes along and we know this flop is right in his wheelhouse so this pot will balloon most likely (which it did). Yeah, you're likely ahead of V2 but it's probably a flip, but what about V1 who has us covered and who has us in what I see as a WAWB type spot? I don't like it.

Lead out, make V1 define his hand a little better for us, so we have a more info to go on for overshoving V2's draw.